AAA+ The end of georestrictions for India?

SameOldStory · 11-26-2010, 10:20 AM

India’s Copyright Bill: Standing Committee On Parallel Import Of Content; EBooks?

"One can now legally bypass exclusive regional licenses. You should check with your lawyers, though."

Georestrictions did have a place in the old world trade system. But not any longer. Those heavily invested in georestrictions need to find another way to make money.

If I can buy a paper book printed Germany and have it sent here, to the US, than I should be able to buy the ebook from a German retailer and download it here.

to India.

HarryT · 11-26-2010, 10:24 AM

Why does this mean an end of geographical restrictions in India?

rcuadro · 11-26-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

The law, as changed in the draft, suggests that ”provided that a copy of a work published in any country outside India with the permission of the author of the work and imported from that country into India shall not be deemed to be an infringing copy”. So what does this mean for the digital space? Our reading of this is, that distributors can import multiple digital copies or DVDs for sale in India from markets where it has been released, without it being deemed copyright violation, even if studios have delayed the release in India. One can now legally bypass exclusive regional licenses. You should check with your lawyers, though.

Seems odd to me. If a publisher does not release media for use in India then no one in India has permission to use it India... then it is copyright infringement...
If the publishing entity authorizes one company to impost a specific media into India it implies that the author allows only one company to import so how can it not be copyright infringement to get it by other means?

Kali Yuga · 11-26-2010, 11:25 AM

I don't think this bill will quite do what you think it will.

I'm guessing that a more likely interpretation is that India has certain additional laws in place that prevent foreign companies from importing content without having a local distributor. So yes, you could purchase an ebook directly from the source -- but only if they are willing to sell it to you.

However, Amazon is under no obligation to sell you any content, no matter where you live. If my understanding is correct, they cannot bar you as a customer on racial, ethnic, religious or gender grounds, but other criteria is fair game.

So this law does remove a critical barrier, and that's a good thing. But if the seller still does not want to provide you with the goods in question, you will still be limited in what you can purchase. As such, I expect you will continue to see lots of geo restrictions until the various contractual obligations are sorted out.

murraypaul · 11-26-2010, 11:35 AM

It also says nothing about whether you will be able to use the content or not.
It is just saying that if something is legally available to buy abroad, it is legal for you to import it into India. It doesnt say that it is legal to perform whatever circumvention would be required to actually use it in India, whether it is a region locked DVD or an eBook, nor does it say that stores are required to sell it to you in the first place.
And if eBooks are considered to be sold to the location of the user, this may not apply, as the work would not have been bought in a country where it was legally available, and then imported.

murraypaul · 11-26-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcuadro

Seems odd to me. If a publisher does not release media for use in India then no one in India has permission to use it India... then it is copyright infringement...

No, if I buy a DVD in the US and bring it back to the UK, how have I infringed anyone's copyright?

SameOldStory · 11-26-2010, 11:57 AM

Maybe I've got it wrong?

"The law, as changed in the draft, suggests that ”provided that a copy of a work published in any country outside India with the permission of the author"

"and imported from that country into India shall not be deemed to be an infringing copy."

That seems to be saying that IF it's a legally published (copyrighted) book (etc.) AND IF it is purchased and imported from the publisher (who printed the copyrighted book, etc) THEN it is not violating the copyright to purchase it, even though it wasn't published in India.

"Our reading of this is, that distributors can import multiple digital copies or DVDs for sale in India from markets where it has been released, without it being deemed copyright violation, "

To me it's the same as saying that I can buy that paper book, printed in Germany, FROM Germany. And therefore it's OK to purchase other (legally published) works from outside India (in this case).

The short article than asks if it applies to electronic media.

"So what does this mean for the digital space?"

And concludes:
"One can now legally bypass exclusive regional licenses. You should check with your lawyers, though."

We're working from a very short article, and I have no legal training. Anyone from India have a more info?

tompe · 11-26-2010, 02:53 PM

This seems only applicable to paper books since the point of sale for an ebook is in India.

SameOldStory · 11-26-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

The short article than asks if it applies to electronic media.

"So what does this mean for the digital space?"

It all has to start somewhere.

HarryT · 11-27-2010, 04:34 AM

I'm afraid that I honestly don't see how this will impact geographical restrictions in India. Apologies if I'm missing something.

If, let's say, an e-book is available for sale in the UK but not in India, it's the British publisher who makes the decision not to sell it to Indian customers. A law enacted in India has no juresdiction in the UK, and will not change the fact that the book will continue to be unavailable to Indian customers.

Can you explain how this new law will alter this situation?

thinkpad · 11-27-2010, 06:02 AM

I remember buying books at a considerable lower price than usually normal when I was in India. All of the books stated: "not for export" on the first page.

Kali Yuga · 11-27-2010, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

To me it's the same as saying that I can buy that paper book, printed in Germany, FROM Germany. And therefore it's OK to purchase other (legally published) works from outside India (in this case).

It is, but this is only removing a protectionist barrier that many other countries don't have.

Geo restrictions on ebooks are based on contracts between the authors and publishers. E.g. I am an author, I sign a contract with Random House that grants them the rights to distribute my book in the US and Canada. I then make a separate deal with Penguin India to translate and sell the book in India. As a result, Random House cannot not to sell the book in India, as that's a violation of the contract. The new law doesn't change this.

If the author signs a contract that gives one publisher international ebook rights, then you could legally purchase that ebook without RH needing to work through a local distributor. But if they don't have those international ebook rights, they still can't sell Indians that ebook.

So, it's sort of like you blew up one dam, and there's another one right behind it.

SameOldStory · 11-27-2010, 09:54 AM

I guess you guys win.

Thinking on it, I believe that India is saying that on their side they (India) don't think that it is a copyright violation.

On the other had, that ebook publisher in Wo auch immer, Deutschland
isn't going to sell it outside of Germany.

End result? Georestrictions remain in place.

thinkpad · 11-27-2010, 10:23 AM

Geo-restrictions is one thing I absolutely do not get. Who benefits from it? it's just a dinosaur copied straight off from the regular publishing industry which makes no sense whatsoever on e-books.

Long live the dinosaurs

SameOldStory · 11-27-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkpadx

Geo-restrictions is one thing I absolutely do not get. Who benefits from it? it's just a dinosaur copied straight off from the regular publishing industry which makes no sense whatsoever on e-books.

Long live the dinosaurs

SIR, you insult dinosaurs!

11-26-2010, 10:20 AM	#1
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	AAA+ The end of georestrictions for India? India’s Copyright Bill: Standing Committee On Parallel Import Of Content; EBooks? *"One can now legally bypass exclusive regional licenses. You should check with your lawyers, though."* Georestrictions did have a place in the old world trade system. But not any longer. Those heavily invested in georestrictions need to find another way to make money. If I can buy a paper book printed Germany and have it sent here, to the US, than I should be able to buy the ebook from a German retailer and download it here. to India.

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11-26-2010, 10:24 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Why does this mean an end of geographical restrictions in India?

11-26-2010, 11:25 AM	#4
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	I don't think this bill will quite do what you think it will. I'm guessing that a more likely interpretation is that India has certain additional laws in place that prevent foreign companies from importing content without having a local distributor. So yes, you could purchase an ebook directly from the source -- but only if they are willing to sell it to you. However, Amazon is under no obligation to sell you any content, no matter where you live. If my understanding is correct, they cannot bar you as a customer on racial, ethnic, religious or gender grounds, but other criteria is fair game. So this law does remove a critical barrier, and that's a good thing. But if the seller still does not want to provide you with the goods in question, you will still be limited in what you can purchase. As such, I expect you will continue to see lots of geo restrictions until the various contractual obligations are sorted out.

11-26-2010, 11:35 AM	#5
murraypaul Interested Bystander Posts: 3,726 Karma: 19728152 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Note 4, Kobo One	It also says nothing about whether you will be able to use the content or not. It is just saying that if something is legally available to buy abroad, it is legal for you to import it into India. It doesnt say that it is legal to perform whatever circumvention would be required to actually use it in India, whether it is a region locked DVD or an eBook, nor does it say that stores are required to sell it to you in the first place. And if eBooks are considered to be sold to the location of the user, this may not apply, as the work would not have been bought in a country where it was legally available, and then imported.

11-26-2010, 11:57 AM	#7
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Maybe I've got it wrong? "The law, as changed in the draft, suggests that ”provided that a copy of a work published in any country outside India with the permission of the author" "and imported from that country into India shall not be deemed to be an infringing copy." That seems to be saying that IF it's a legally published (copyrighted) book (etc.) AND IF it is purchased and imported from the publisher (who printed the copyrighted book, etc) THEN it is not violating the copyright to purchase it, even though it wasn't published in India. "Our reading of this is, that distributors can import multiple digital copies or DVDs for sale in India from markets where it has been released, without it being deemed copyright violation, " To me it's the same as saying that I can buy that paper book, printed in Germany, FROM Germany. And therefore it's OK to purchase other (legally published) works from outside India (in this case). The short article than asks if it applies to electronic media. "So what does this mean for the digital space?" And concludes: "One can now legally bypass exclusive regional licenses. You should check with your lawyers, though." We're working from a very short article, and I have no legal training. Anyone from India have a more info?

11-26-2010, 02:53 PM	#8
tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	This seems only applicable to paper books since the point of sale for an ebook is in India.

11-27-2010, 04:34 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I'm afraid that I honestly don't see how this will impact geographical restrictions in India. Apologies if I'm missing something. If, let's say, an e-book is available for sale in the UK but not in India, it's the British publisher who makes the decision not to sell it to Indian customers. A law enacted in India has no juresdiction in the UK, and will not change the fact that the book will continue to be unavailable to Indian customers. Can you explain how this new law will alter this situation?

11-27-2010, 06:02 AM	#11
thinkpad David Posts: 1,808 Karma: 8916183 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Norway Device: Kindle, E.Edge (sold), Irex Iliad (retired)	I remember buying books at a considerable lower price than usually normal when I was in India. All of the books stated: "not for export" on the first page.

11-27-2010, 09:54 AM	#13
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	I guess you guys win. Thinking on it, I believe that India is saying that on their side they (India) don't think that it is a copyright violation. On the other had, that ebook publisher in Wo auch immer, Deutschland isn't going to sell it outside of Germany. End result? Georestrictions remain in place.

11-27-2010, 10:23 AM	#14
thinkpad David Posts: 1,808 Karma: 8916183 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Norway Device: Kindle, E.Edge (sold), Irex Iliad (retired)	Geo-restrictions is one thing I absolutely do not get. Who benefits from it? it's just a dinosaur copied straight off from the regular publishing industry which makes no sense whatsoever on e-books. Long live the dinosaurs

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