Convince Me to Cancel Nook Pre-Order

geneaber · 11-03-2009, 10:13 AM

I placed a pre-order for nook, but am having second thoughts (primarily the stark pricing differences for ebooks). My biggest hang up with Kindle is lack of epub or pdf support.

What are the workarounds for pdf support (that do not require me paying additional)? How difficult are they to implement?

I see myself clipping material from the web and wanting to move it to Kindle to read. What is the most efficient way to do this?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

tautologico · 11-03-2009, 11:12 AM

I'm not particularly worried about convincing you to buy or not buy anything

But I did some research on the nook, because initially I thought it to be really better than the kindle, and now I believe it's not much better, maybe a little, maybe it's on the same league.

PDF support was one of the issues, I read a lot of academic papers on PDF and other technical material, and thought the PDF support on the nook was a significant advantage. It turns out that it is not easy to render complex PDF files in the small screen when they were designed for a larger paper size. Some people say that the PDF implementation used by the nook is not satisfactory for files with complex layouts (like two columns, something widely used in papers). If your PDFs are mostly text I suppose you'll be able to read them well. There is some discussion about this in this thread.

As for PDF workarounds, mostly text PDFs are easily converted either by the service provided by Amazon, or by using Mobipocket Creator (free download). I converted some mostly-text PDFs and read them on the Kindle without problem, and the conversion process is very easy. For complex layouts, with figures and tables, neither of these two solutions work well. I used a tool called PaperCrop (latest versions here) to convert complex PDFs to images and loaded them into the pictures folder of the kindle, and it worked well. It's possible that this solution will be the better choice for complex PDFs on the nook too, unless their PDF implementation is better than expected. Using PaperCrop is easy but still is a little more involved than a simple conversion.

About epub support, I don't know. It doesn't matter to me, so I didn't look into it. If it is important to you, maybe the nook is a better choice. I don't believe Amazon will include epub support in this generation of Kindles, mostly because distributing software updates via wireless is really expensive to them.

For clipping material I suppose you could paste the clippings in a file (word document, html or plain text) and convert it using Mobipocket Creator easily. Never tried to do it, so I don't know how well it would work for you. No idea how you would do this with the nook, but there's probably some similar way.

Bottomline, for me, is that if you're mostly worried about PDFs, there's not a big difference between kindle and nook. The kindle is less convenient, because you have to go through an extra conversion step for simple PDFs. For complex PDFs they seem to be on the same boat and the better choice is using some specialized tool. But we don't know, the nook is not out yet, and it may have a wonderful PDF implementation, who knows? I wouldn't count on that though (it's the Adobe implementation used by other readers, so people have previous experience with it).

jkeranen · 11-03-2009, 12:11 PM

I don't think that I will necessarily convince anyone, but I did cancel my Nook order for a Kindle.

I picked up a Kindle DX so I do have PDF support.

My main reason for going with Kindle was the content and content pricing. Barnes & Noble may be able to compete with Amazon but they haven't showed any signs of it yet.

Another small reason that I decided against Nook is that the white plastic bezel and black plastic screen border appear to be shiny plastic. If the bezel has to be plastic I would prefer matte plastic. Of course a nice metal case like the Sony Reader would be even better but they are even worse than B&N for content.

The main reason that I didn't like the shiny plastic case was that when using a book light I find that I have to direct the center of the light onto the bezel to avoid glare. If the bezel itself is reflective I don't think that will work very well. Also shiny plastic tends to show a lot of fingerprints and that would irritate me as well.

For some reason the prototype shots of the Nook seem to have matte plastic but the photos from their press event clearly show a shiny plastic. It could be something that is only on a prototype run of the device but I would guess that they had final hardware for the press event.

tautologico · 11-03-2009, 12:15 PM

Oh yeah, if PDFs are really important a larger device like a Kindle DX or a QUE from Plastic Logic (which will be out next year, it seems) is a better choice.

The Kindle DX has the advantage when it comes to content. I'm waiting for the International version of the Kindle DX to come out, then I'll probably buy it. Being able to read all the PDFs I need or want to read without conversions and without printing makes it worthwile.

davidspitzer · 11-03-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneaber

I placed a pre-order for nook, but am having second thoughts (primarily the stark pricing differences for ebooks). My biggest hang up with Kindle is lack of epub or pdf support.

What are the workarounds for pdf support (that do not require me paying additional)? How difficult are they to implement?

I see myself clipping material from the web and wanting to move it to Kindle to read. What is the most efficient way to do this?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

even on devices that support pdf's 6 inch screen do not really cut it - i have purchased the sony 600, kindle 2, sony prs-500 and finally the kindle DX - I use the Kindle DX exclusivley now - there are detractors to be sure but the amazon book prices are great - their selection is the best and the pdf support while not complete is very solid on the DX - (I regularly read 1000 page plus scanned law book pdf's)

fugazied · 11-03-2009, 04:45 PM

I'd find it hard to convince you because I have been looking at the nook very varefully as a possible move from my Kindle DX! I do read PDFs and support is lacking on the Kindle, but Amazon prices are generally very good.

At the end of the day the abilities of both devices are 'pretty' close. If you are looking for Kindle advantages specifically, I'd say the prices at the Amazon store is the main advantage.

jyavenard · 11-03-2009, 04:49 PM

Or you can install Savory on your Kindle 2, it lets you automatically convert PDF and various other documents..
http://code.google.com/p/savory/

the conversion quality is pretty good ; certainly better than the Amazon email conversion...

daffy4u · 11-03-2009, 05:06 PM

Take advantage of the 14 day return policy. Run it through its paces and then decide.

desertgrandma · 11-03-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneaber

I placed a pre-order for nook, but am having second thoughts (primarily the stark pricing differences for ebooks). My biggest hang up with Kindle is lack of epub or pdf support.

What are the workarounds for pdf support (that do not require me paying additional)? How difficult are they to implement?

I see myself clipping material from the web and wanting to move it to Kindle to read. What is the most efficient way to do this?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

You still have time to order the DX, keep it for the 30 day exchange period, and see if you like the way it works for you.

If not......send it back and pay only shipping charges.

You can always play with the Nook at the store once it comes out to avoid the 10% restocking fee. About $25.

sianon · 11-04-2009, 02:20 AM

I have just taken delivery of my Kindle international and much to my surprise find that it does in fact read epub files that have had DRM removed.

rfog · 11-04-2009, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sianon

I have just taken delivery of my Kindle international and much to my surprise find that it does in fact read epub files that have had DRM removed.

Sorry but no. You are wrong in any way. Just tested.

sianon · 11-04-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfog

Sorry but no. You are wrong in any way. Just tested.

Not wrong at all, copied one of my DRMed epub files and it works perfectly.

rfog · 11-04-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sianon

Not wrong at all, copied one of my DRMed epub files and it works perfectly.

Kindle International is not capable to read epub files, less if they have DRM. Point.

One question: How do you engage your Kindle with ADE in PC and write the signature to the Kindle via ADE?

If you want convince me, send the ebook to me at [text deleted by post author] and I will test it.

sianon · 11-04-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfog

Kindle International is not capable to read epub files, less if they have DRM. Point.

One question: How do you engage your Kindle with ADE in PC and write the signature to the Kindle via ADE?

If you want convince me, send the ebook to me at rfog at cableworld point es and I will test it.

Interesting, other books have not transferred successfully, but I transferred an epub version of the girl who played with fire and it is reading on the kindle. And no, I won't send a copyright book to anyone given the breach of copyright this would entail. The reason for my attempt was having purchased a book from the kindle store labeled as epub, so I decided to attempt to transfer the other book not expecting it to work. Perhaps I am wrong and in some of the transferred files I had a mobi version of the book, not sure will check later, but I don't think I ever converted that book to mobi

I did mean ealrier to state un-DRMed as opposed to DRmed

rfog · 11-04-2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sianon

Interesting, other books have not transferred successfully, but I transferred an epub version of the girl who played with fire and it is reading on the kindle. And no, I won't send a copyright book to anyone given the breach of copyright this would entail. The reason for my attempt was having purchased a book from the kindle store labeled as epub, so I decided to attempt to transfer the other book not expecting it to work. Perhaps I am wrong and in some of the transferred files I had a mobi version of the book, not sure will check later, but I don't think I ever converted that book to mobi

I did mean ealrier to state un-DRMed as opposed to DRmed

Well, it seems a mobi renamed to epub extension. If you have an hex editor you can see the header and verify if it is epub or mobi. Other easy way to verify it is rename to .mobi and load it with mobipocket desktop. If it does, it is mobi instead fo epub.

I'm completely sure Kindle Intl does not read epub.

11-03-2009, 10:13 AM	#1
geneaber Connoisseur Posts: 82 Karma: 118 Join Date: Dec 2005 Device: Kindle 2	Convince Me to Cancel Nook Pre-Order I placed a pre-order for nook, but am having second thoughts (primarily the stark pricing differences for ebooks). My biggest hang up with Kindle is lack of epub or pdf support. What are the workarounds for pdf support (that do not require me paying additional)? How difficult are they to implement? I see myself clipping material from the web and wanting to move it to Kindle to read. What is the most efficient way to do this? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

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11-03-2009, 11:12 AM	#2
tautologico Member Posts: 22 Karma: 50 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindle 2 International	I'm not particularly worried about convincing you to buy or not buy anything But I did some research on the nook, because initially I thought it to be really better than the kindle, and now I believe it's not much better, maybe a little, maybe it's on the same league. PDF support was one of the issues, I read a lot of academic papers on PDF and other technical material, and thought the PDF support on the nook was a significant advantage. It turns out that it is not easy to render complex PDF files in the small screen when they were designed for a larger paper size. Some people say that the PDF implementation used by the nook is not satisfactory for files with complex layouts (like two columns, something widely used in papers). If your PDFs are mostly text I suppose you'll be able to read them well. There is some discussion about this in this thread. As for PDF workarounds, mostly text PDFs are easily converted either by the service provided by Amazon, or by using Mobipocket Creator (free download). I converted some mostly-text PDFs and read them on the Kindle without problem, and the conversion process is very easy. For complex layouts, with figures and tables, neither of these two solutions work well. I used a tool called PaperCrop (latest versions here) to convert complex PDFs to images and loaded them into the pictures folder of the kindle, and it worked well. It's possible that this solution will be the better choice for complex PDFs on the nook too, unless their PDF implementation is better than expected. Using PaperCrop is easy but still is a little more involved than a simple conversion. About epub support, I don't know. It doesn't matter to me, so I didn't look into it. If it is important to you, maybe the nook is a better choice. I don't believe Amazon will include epub support in this generation of Kindles, mostly because distributing software updates via wireless is really expensive to them. For clipping material I suppose you could paste the clippings in a file (word document, html or plain text) and convert it using Mobipocket Creator easily. Never tried to do it, so I don't know how well it would work for you. No idea how you would do this with the nook, but there's probably some similar way. Bottomline, for me, is that if you're mostly worried about PDFs, there's not a big difference between kindle and nook. The kindle is less convenient, because you have to go through an extra conversion step for simple PDFs. For complex PDFs they seem to be on the same boat and the better choice is using some specialized tool. But we don't know, the nook is not out yet, and it may have a wonderful PDF implementation, who knows? I wouldn't count on that though (it's the Adobe implementation used by other readers, so people have previous experience with it).

11-03-2009, 12:11 PM	#3
jkeranen Member Posts: 24 Karma: 296 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Sony PRS 505/B&N Nook	I don't think that I will necessarily convince anyone, but I did cancel my Nook order for a Kindle. I picked up a Kindle DX so I do have PDF support. My main reason for going with Kindle was the content and content pricing. Barnes & Noble may be able to compete with Amazon but they haven't showed any signs of it yet. Another small reason that I decided against Nook is that the white plastic bezel and black plastic screen border appear to be shiny plastic. If the bezel has to be plastic I would prefer matte plastic. Of course a nice metal case like the Sony Reader would be even better but they are even worse than B&N for content. The main reason that I didn't like the shiny plastic case was that when using a book light I find that I have to direct the center of the light onto the bezel to avoid glare. If the bezel itself is reflective I don't think that will work very well. Also shiny plastic tends to show a lot of fingerprints and that would irritate me as well. For some reason the prototype shots of the Nook seem to have matte plastic but the photos from their press event clearly show a shiny plastic. It could be something that is only on a prototype run of the device but I would guess that they had final hardware for the press event.

11-03-2009, 12:15 PM	#4
tautologico Member Posts: 22 Karma: 50 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindle 2 International	Oh yeah, if PDFs are really important a larger device like a Kindle DX or a QUE from Plastic Logic (which will be out next year, it seems) is a better choice. The Kindle DX has the advantage when it comes to content. I'm waiting for the International version of the Kindle DX to come out, then I'll probably buy it. Being able to read all the PDFs I need or want to read without conversions and without printing makes it worthwile.

11-03-2009, 04:45 PM	#6
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	I'd find it hard to convince you because I have been looking at the nook very varefully as a possible move from my Kindle DX! I do read PDFs and support is lacking on the Kindle, but Amazon prices are generally very good. At the end of the day the abilities of both devices are 'pretty' close. If you are looking for Kindle advantages specifically, I'd say the prices at the Amazon store is the main advantage.

11-03-2009, 04:49 PM	#7
jyavenard Zealot Posts: 141 Karma: 383 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Kindle 2	Or you can install Savory on your Kindle 2, it lets you automatically convert PDF and various other documents.. http://code.google.com/p/savory/ the conversion quality is pretty good ; certainly better than the Amazon email conversion...

11-03-2009, 05:06 PM	#8
daffy4u I'm Super Kindle-icious Posts: 6,734 Karma: 2434103 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Drive, Calinadia Candafornia Device: KDXG, KT, Oasis	Take advantage of the 14 day return policy. Run it through its paces and then decide.

11-04-2009, 02:20 AM	#10
sianon Addict Posts: 352 Karma: 572 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne Device: Sony 500, Bebook, Kindle, Eco reader Drs and soon the Archos 9	I have just taken delivery of my Kindle international and much to my surprise find that it does in fact read epub files that have had DRM removed.

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