Publishers need to die

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

The first and most important service provided (to us end-users -- readers) by publishers is that of filtering for quality.

You are extremely mistaken if you think that Web 2.0 cannot provide us with that filtering of quality.

I much prefer my filter be provided by a web 2.0 tool taking advantage of the wisdom of all online users, rather then the filter being by some filthy rich publisher from his golf cart smoking his cigars.

Publishers only care about profit. They turn good books into commercial crap. They need to completely disappear, be exterminated.

When I download an ebook, I want 100% OF THE PROFITS going in the pocket of the author. Publishers taking 75% of my ebook money or tax dollars for free ebook downloads intended to the author, publishers need to die.

There is absolutely nothing that a publisher can do which Google Books and other free ebook repositories cannot do. Web 2.0 is the new publisher, and THAT ONE SHALL NOT be controlled by any filthy publishing corporation. Go away.

Originally Posted by Charbax

Publishers are not needed anymore.

Google Books will host and store the ebook released directly by the author to its public.

Authors will get paid directly by readers, supported by readers, and new Obama law should make it so that artists and authors are paid through an art tax based on the popularity and the quality of their work. Popularity can be very precisely measured using computer and Internet technology. Quality can be measured by a ratings system. Every rate for the stuff they like a lot, this way the system knows how to find out which authors are well liked and by how many readers.

Anyways publishers, distributors, book stores, book marketing and all that should just go away and do something else. They have become absolutely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by stxopher

Hmmm, as much as I agree with you, I must also disagree with you.

The way the realm of print is there is a need for publishers, distributors, etc etc. But the thing is that there is a need for 2 different forms of them. One for the standard dead tree format that has been around and served the world well for many years and another for the competing digital sector.

Even though they are called the same they emphasize and use completely separate systems to deliver the material to the end users. The problem comes when they try and force all of it into the same procedure and spreadsheet, something not easily or competently done.

Why do we need any of these people with digital? Properly done (something that is just now starting to happen) a publisher can act as a management system helping authors navigate the legal and market trails that abound in the real world. They can help supply interested authors with tools to produce better books (since the better the book, the better the return on investment). Publishing can change from buying a product from a writer to acting as a service provider, exchanging percentage for things like final editing, format conversion, discounted programs for previous authors. Something as seemingly simple as providing an online location with links to similar books from the same house would be of immense benefit to a writer and well worth a percentage.

Book stores? Well, the best thing there is that you don't have to hunt for books. Again, the name is the same but the function and services offered change. Rarely will I find a book by going to the authors website (especially a new writer) while I will often find one while browsing for similar titles. It's starting to become more common to see tags such as "if you like this author, try these" or "if you like this book, look at this one" on the booklist itself or in the little discussion box that may accompany it. With the numerous authors, both new and experienced, that exist out there, for the end reader to be able to go to a central place and search for books is more crucial than ever.

Just look at two of the most popular bookstores for Mobileread visitors: BooksOnBoard and Fictionwise. Make no mistake, they are bookstores and if you were to propose to people on these forums that they weren't needed and generally useless...well, you would probably be able to hear the laughter even without being online.

Again, I agree with you that the current system for publishing, distributing and selling books has no real place in the digital world but I do believe these businesses do have a place in publishing, just not as they exist now.

I want my BooksOnBoard and Fictionwise type of "if you like this author, try these" or "if you like this book, look at this one" service to be provided by a Googke Books or Last.fm type of Web 2.0 website. I want proof reading, editing, marketing, all that to be managed by Web 2.0 tools like Google Books and Last.fm type of online services which in fact are a community of all readers who can dedicate their time in communities that can support the authors, complement the ebooks with an unlimited amount of meta commentary and debate using touchscreen ebooks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Charbax

Publishers only care about profit. They turn good books into commercial crap. They need to completely disappear, be exterminated.

On the contrary, publishers do exactly the opposite - they turn the "crap" that authors generally write into a commercially publishable book. Very few authors are capable of writing good, grammatically-correct English; it's the copy editor (who works for the publisher) who does that absolutely vital job.

You have only to look at the standard of written English on this board to realise how few people are capable of writing the language correctly - even the basic stuff like putting apostrophes in the right place.

Publishers have an absolutely vital role in the business; I would respectfully suggest to you that you've probably never written a book if you are unaware of just how much work a publisher does, and how vital they are in the book industry.

[Donnageddon]

Charbax, can your precious web 2.0 play catch in the park with his faithful dog? Can Google books buy a well appointed home in the South Hamptons?

I think not.

Before you wish Publishers death, take a look in your heart and think of the publishers children. Do you want them to be orphans? Their wives or husbands widows or widowers?

I think you know the answer to that. And that answer is "no!"

Do I wish they would get a clue and rethink their business. Yes.

And maybe become plumbers.

The world needs plumbers, not dead publishers.

That is what I believe.

[Charbax]

The work of copy editing can quite simply be managed by wiki type of collaborative work by all users.

Let there be an infinite amount of versions of each ebook, remixes, rewrites, it's all up to the author which "copy writer" as you call it would be wirelessly invited online to "copy edit" his writing. If that's what you claim is important.

Last I checked, 80% of the revenue from selling books and even a larger % of selling of ebooks goes to publishers and all types of other intermediaries (distributors, Amazon and others). This to me is purely criminal and completely insane.

My money should go 100% to the author, and the author can hire "copy writers" online whatever you call it, can compensate fans for helping him promote his book if he wants. Amazon should have absolutely no cut in the sale of ebooks other than taking a reasonable separate fee whatever they may charge for the bandwidth, hosting and infrastructure of the cloud computing system that they provide.

[Donnageddon]

Charbax, you make a compelling, but grammatically flawed case filled with spelling errors.

Perhaps you could use an editor or "whatever you call it".

[Over]

Publishers also do marketing. And an editor is more than a O&G corrector, he helps the author to make a better book. Just take a look to the chapter by chapter annotations of Brandon Sanderson's works in his site, for example.

A publisher is more than a distributor.

Now, there are many things wrong in the publishing industry, those should be corrected. But they're still useful.

[Donnageddon]

Now, there are many things wrong in the publishing industry, those should be corrected.

But I think we can all agree, that having publishers die would be far too harsh a correction.

They could become grocery store clerks, for example. Or jugglers.

The possibilities are practically endless!

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by TadW

Whether a book is printed on paper and bound or formatted for download as an e-book, publishers still have all the costs leading up to that stage. We still pay for the author advance,

Authors can be paid in advance using the Obama book tax. Simply put, based on the measured popularity and quality of their previous works, when an author is in "writing a new book" mode, he can get an automatic advance payment from the book tax system. Then based on the measured quality and popularity of their work once it's released, it will determine the value of that author if he wishes to dedicate more time in writing mode.

Also, an author could choose to publish his writing in real-time, perhaps even solicit commentary and suggestions from his fans while he is in the process of writing. That type of real-time publishing activity can also provide more precise statistics for the book tax system knowing exactly how much advance payment the author is entitled to.

Originally Posted by TadW

the editing, the copyediting, the proofreading,

Just as translating, all this can be done by an unlimited amount of people collaboratively online using online collaboration tools. The author can pick the best editors, translators, proofreaders to help him using Web 2.0 tools.

Those edit slaves can get paid very precisely per word that they thus help edit, copyedit, translate and so forth.

Translation can happen as well using a tool like Google Translate and then by manual collaborative proofreading of that automatic output.

Originally Posted by TadW

the cover and interior design, the illustrations, the sales kit, the marketing efforts, the publicity, and the staff that needs to coordinate all of the details that make books possible in these stages.

None of those things are needed anymore. Marketing efforts and publicity are not needed anymore when the content will automatically reach its optimal target audience using web 2.0 tools. Web 2.0 algorithms can provide the best possible recommendations algorithms using the wisdom of crowds to rate and categorize every published word out there.

[Donnageddon]

Obama book tax

Oh... huh... uh... WTF?

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Oh... huh... uh... WTF?

Yup, this is the solution to online piracy. Musicians, film makers, writers, journalists, bloggers all these people are going to be paid through the Obama art tax.

About $5 per month per person in average based on personal fortune and income can pay for all of it.

Then you pay the artists based on their popularity and the rated quality of their works. That's what you can use computer and Internet technologies to measure and monitor. You can measure traffic, popularity using logging at the multimedia player software or text viewer end (voluntary logging from the web browser), ISPs and the Government already know which content is accessed how much on the Internet. But those statistics can be improved and accuracy improved. Any attempt at gaming the system can also cleverly be prevented through voluntary authentication of all the users.

Originally Posted by Charbax

Posted at http://torrentfreak.com/former-emi-b...comment-530906

The Obama arts tax for the USA for example, at an average of about $5 per person, amounts to about $20 billion per year. That’s already plenty more than all artists are getting in the USA each year combined. It would amount to about 0,14% of the US Gross Domestic Product. $20 billion out of $13,84 trillion.

Do the same type of taxing in Europe and other rich countries, in each country based on the average income per person and you’ve got close to $100 billion for all the artists and for financing all the works of art of the world each year. That is including the financing whatever big movie productions and any other expensive artistic projects.

$100 billion per year can pay for close to 3.5 million artists full time salaries based on the USA average personal income.

Basically it kind of means that about 1 person in 1000 with the most talent and the most creative ambition could be a full time paid artist if they want.

But consider also that you could have lots and lots of simply part time artists as well instead of only full time artists. Such as some casual bloggers and video-bloggers, they could get just payments according to their creativity and they can still also have another job as well.

Those $100 billion from the art tax, doesn’t have to be the whole art industry as well. The industry can still sell books, ebooks, CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays, cinema tickets, concert tickets and plenty more as usual as well on top of that for the established popular artists to enjoy even more income and for them to continue to also use as many private funds as they ant to continue to finance their expensive artistic creations.

[Donnageddon]

Web 2.0 publishing in common parlance:

"All your books are belong to us"

[Donnageddon]

In what realm does

Yup, this is the solution to online piracy. Musicians, film makers, writers, journalists, bloggers all these people are going to be paid through the Obama art tax.

Make sense to people who actually live in the reality based world?

[Donnageddon]

Do I need to eat peyote, or drink kool aid.

I am not sure what unreality you are speaking from.

[Charbax]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Web 2.0 publishing in common parlance:

"All your books are belong to us"

If you don't want your ebooks to be part of the Obama free download servers, then you can opt-out and thus you can choose not to receive any money from the Obama art tax.

Just don't count on Obama to punish the children that are using the pirate bay or other dark nets "pirating" your content.

I am sure most septics will quickly be convinced once they see that a $5 art tax per person actually amounts to a huge amount of money overall. It amounts to much more then what the authors are currently getting. Basically by opting in to be part of the Obama book tax system, and having all of their ebooks available for free online, an author can from one day to the next, by legally circumventing the publishers and other intermediaries, probably be making 10x their current income.

[yagiz]

Obviously that tax only applies to the US citizens . What prevents us (the rest of the world) to hook on to those free download servers?