Amazon removing ebooks with TOC at end of book

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 07:19 AM

This drives me crazy because it completely screws the 'furthest read' between devices. I've complained to Amazon over and over (as well as publishers) about this. Glad to see they are finally doing something!

Quote:

Amazon has begun a quiet campaign of removing Kindle e-books that have the table of contents at the end of the book, instead of the front. Amazon has a new algorithm that is automatically emailing authors and telling them they have five days to make the changes or the BUY button will disappear. In some cases authors aren’t even getting the emails and their e-books have just been removed.

Walter Jon Williams wrote a Nebula-nominated SF novel Metropolitan in 2005 and Amazon removed the buy button during an expensive BookBub promotional campaign.

When he changed the table of contents from the back of the book to the front, Amazon then sent an email to all previous purchasers of the book saying that the author had now corrected serious formatting and editorial issues and they need to download the new copy.
.....

http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-n...-kindle-ebooks

shalym · 03-22-2016, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

This drives me crazy because it completely screws the 'furthest read' between devices. I've complained to Amazon over and over (as well as publishers) about this. Glad to see they are finally doing something!

http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-n...-kindle-ebooks

I never understood the purpose of an html table of contents in an ebook. If I want to navigate within the book, I'm going to use the ereader software, not the html TOC.

Does anyone actually use the html TOC?

Shari

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

I never understood the purpose of an html table of contents in an ebook. If I want to navigate within the book, I'm going to use the ereader software, not the html TOC.

Does anyone actually use the html TOC?

Shari

Yes.
Just like I do in a paper book.

shalym · 03-22-2016, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yes.
Just like I do in a paper book.

I'm curious--why don't you use the navigation built in to your reader software? Isn't that easier than going to the HTML table of contents, then clicking on a link?

Shari

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm curious--why don't you use the navigation built in to your reader software? Isn't that easier than going to the HTML table of contents, then clicking on a link?

Shari

No it's not. What do you even mean by the 'navigation built in?' Next page? Precious Page? Search for xxxx? That's just silly.

That makes no sense when you are looking for a particular story, author comments or appendix comment.

And as I said this is mostly irritating wrt to 'furthest read' when moving among various readers which all have different capabilities.

Nate the great · 03-22-2016, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

No it's not. What do you even mean by the 'navigation built in?' Next page? Precious Page? Search for xxxx? That's just silly.

That makes no sense when you are looking for a particular story, author comments or appendix comment.

And as I said this is mostly irritating wrt to 'furthest read' when moving among various readers which all have different capabilities.

Most ebook platforms, including the Kindle, support an external TOC. There's no need for a TOC in the text of the book.

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Most ebook platforms, including the Kindle, support an external TOC. There's no need for a TOC in the text of the book.

That just wrong.

shalym · 03-22-2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Most ebook platforms, including the Kindle, support an external TOC. There's no need for a TOC in the text of the book.

This is exactly what I'm talking about--In Kindles it's the "Go To" menu.

Shari

shalym · 03-22-2016, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

That just wrong.

Your Kindle doesn't have a "Go To" menu item?

Shari

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

This is exactly what I'm talking about--In Kindles it's the "Go To" menu.

Shari

Try that on a K2.

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 08:22 AM

Clearly there is an issue, because Amazon is making this change.
It's for the reason I stated.

shalym · 03-22-2016, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Try that on a K2.

I'm sorry--you're correct. I should have noticed your Kindle version.

Shari

Jeff L · 03-22-2016, 08:36 AM

Older Kindles don't have an external navigation facility. The ncx is used for the progress bar and for jumping from chapter to chapter (or wherever the ncx entries are pointing to). Even in that instance, older Kindles only read the top level of the ncx.

Amazon based the Kindles on Mobipocket's software which it bought way back when. Mobipocket used the <guide> entries in the opf for a menu but even there Kindles would only recognize a few types of entries.

So Kindle users have had to rely on the internal html contents page until the newer devices showed up.

kennyc · 03-22-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm sorry--you're correct. I should have noticed your Kindle version.

Shari

Thanks.

And even besides TOC at the back of the book there and many books with Appendices or Anthologies with author bios or story comments at the back of the book and those too can screw up 'furthest page read' when moving between multiple devices (which I constantly do).

Cinisajoy · 03-22-2016, 10:48 AM

The actual reason for Amazon wanting the move is because it throws off their pages read count for authors in Select.
Now according to David Gaughan or Gaughran (never can remember how to spell his name), Amazon is sending notices first for authors to move their TOC.
(Yes, some authors were whining about that.)
I do wonder if it is only on the Kindle Select books.

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03-22-2016, 08:22 AM	#11
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,891 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Clearly there is an issue, because Amazon is making this change. It's for the reason I stated.

03-22-2016, 08:36 AM	#13
Jeff L Zealot Posts: 117 Karma: 584308 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: San Francisco Device: Kindle	Older Kindles don't have an external navigation facility. The ncx is used for the progress bar and for jumping from chapter to chapter (or wherever the ncx entries are pointing to). Even in that instance, older Kindles only read the top level of the ncx. Amazon based the Kindles on Mobipocket's software which it bought way back when. Mobipocket used the <guide> entries in the opf for a menu but even there Kindles would only recognize a few types of entries. So Kindle users have had to rely on the internal html contents page until the newer devices showed up.

03-22-2016, 10:48 AM	#15
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	The actual reason for Amazon wanting the move is because it throws off their pages read count for authors in Select. Now according to David Gaughan or Gaughran (never can remember how to spell his name), Amazon is sending notices first for authors to move their TOC. (Yes, some authors were whining about that.) I do wonder if it is only on the Kindle Select books.

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