the dark side beckons: help me answer the call

ignatz · 08-18-2004, 12:20 PM

Okay, so I never thought the day would come, but I beginning to be seduced by the call of the dark side. I'm beginning to think seriously about migrating from my beloved T|E to a PPC. But I'm clueless where to begin. Can someone please give me some recommendations as to what I should start looking at? I'd like something mid-range, like the T|E is in the Palm world. I need good battery life, moderate price, and a true pocket-sized form factor, because I carry the damn thing around everywhere. While I'm buying something new, I would also like wireless (but not bluetooth), but it's not a dealbreaker if it's not included. Another plus would an SD card slot, as I already have an investment in them.

I'm in no rush, but I can feel it in the air, and I would like to start browsing around. I would love to have a handful of options to look through, so if you know of some that don't quite fit my specs, feel free to throw them at me anyway. Your help is greatly appreciated.

ignatz · 08-18-2004, 12:42 PM

Also, are there any Pocket PC's that can function as phones on the Verizon network? I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a PPC phone, but hey, options are good...

ignatz · 08-18-2004, 01:35 PM

Wow, I like the Axim X30 (even the mid version, with 312Mhz and wireless) and it's cheap! Anyone have any experience with that model?

sUnShInE · 08-18-2004, 02:47 PM

Funny, that's what I was thinking about too (see earlier post).

I'm still hesitating though.

There's plenty of sites out there that preach to the potentially converted it seems, but I can't offer any first-person insight. Keep us posted on this difficult and highly personal decision.

Alexander Turcic · 08-18-2004, 04:31 PM

Make sure you get a 640x480 VGA device... I've seen them in stores, and they look wonderful to the eye!

Francesco · 08-18-2004, 05:39 PM

Why, Ignatz... why?

I mean, seriously, what is the reason to change?
I just ordered a T|T3 (love at first sight), but in fact I have no reasons to "reelect" PalmOS (neither to change to PPC), except "incumbency".

What are you looking for that can't be found in PalmOS?

Aren't you gonna miss all those .pdbs and .prcs in your life?

Good luck, and post your experience. I'm curious...

... will I be the next?

Alexander Turcic · 08-18-2004, 06:01 PM

When again is the date for OS6?

I think we have all a lot of expectations in OS6...

ignatz · 08-18-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Make sure you get a 640x480 VGA device... I've seen them in stores

Alex, what brands/models have this?!? I haven't seen any yet. Surely their cost must be out of my range...

And Francesco, I'm not really sure why... I have an itch, but I'm not clear on where it will take me. I'm can't imagine why I'm thinking of abandoning my beloved T|E, but I am. Probably I will just wait a little while longer and see where the technology goes. But my birthday is coming up in October! That's one of the only times of the year that I can justify expenses of this magnitude...

By the way, does anyone in the states know a good place to get your hands on demo models? Best Buy or somewhere like that? I never go to those stores, so I'm not sure where I can actually lay hands on one and not just poke at it locked down behind plexiglass.

cbarnett · 08-18-2004, 07:08 PM

Being (one of) the resident PPC fanatic, I can only encourage you, ignatz! I do recommend shopping around, getting some advice. The best place to ask though, would be a PPC specific forum. There you can ask for recommendations on what others are using, what they like and don't like, etc, and get it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

VGA is _very_ nice, but there are only two models that currently support it (Toshiba and a new HP ipaq only just released). You may want to hold off another year or so (like I am) before taking the plunge there.

Here are a couple of good PPC forums to check out:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/index.php
http://www.pocketmatrix.com/
http://www.ipaqhq.com/
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/

Craig.

Bob Russell · 08-18-2004, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ignatz

Alex, what brands/models have this?!? I haven't seen any yet. Surely their cost must be out of my range...

Here's some good info on VGA PPCs...
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Wh...Right?site=PPC
http://www.brighthand.com/article/La...e_Toshiba_e830

I have a little bit of the bug also, but I don't think it's quite nirvana over in the PPC world either, and I don't have the time to learn a whole new PDA and all the tricks and software etc. So I'm trying to be patient with PalmOne and Zodiac as I wait and wonder. Even though 80% of their resources are going to smartphones, maybe they can come up with a decent traditional PDA.

Personally, I don't understand how you could do that with a nice bright shiny T|E around! I'm drooling over the thought of a T|E myself as I try very hard to wait for the new stuff from PalmOne.

ignatz · 08-19-2004, 12:52 AM

As I expected, the 640x480 machines are far and away past what I would be comfortable spending. I'm not an early adopter and tend to buy equipment that's a year or so out and middle of the field, so that I'm not paying top dollar. I literally carry my PDA with me all the time, including in the warehouse when I'm working fabrication (I like to listen to books on tape then) and I'm much more concerned about carrying $500 around than $200.

Thanks for the links Bob and Craig. I agree, Bob, that I'm sure it's not all better in PPC land. I think that at the core I really feel that I need a bigger screen. I do a *ton* of reading and that damn little screen on the T|E is going to hurt me. Even if the resolution is such that I can't get the same small font size, I think that such a large screen would be much easier on me. And a jog dial or something similar would be nice too. Something a little more adaptable to my insatiable reading. For some reason the T|3 and it's weird slide-out mechanism has always turned me off, but in fairness, I've never had one in hand to see what it was really like. I'm definitely not a fan of M$, but I do think that I'm having a spell where I don't think that they're the devil, at least for now. I'm a small time network admin for about 15 computers, and lately Microsoft has been doing me right, loathe though I am to admit it. Thank god the days of Windows 98 are all but behind us now...

All in all I'm not a huge fan of where Palms seem to be going. With Clie out, I think that a lot of the innovation is gone and certainly the heat is off Palm in that sort of competition. Now they just have to keep the Palm as a product afloat. If they can pull off a coup and unveil some well thought out OS6 devices I may reconsider, but I think that PPCs are where the new ideas are coming out. Much as I love my T|E, it has its problems. The buttons were never great, and they are definitely showing their age, getting harder to respond. The device is only about 9 months old, and though it's had heavy use, I think that it should do better than that. I'll be pissed if the electronics last but the inputs fail. The text entry options pretty much suck. Graffiti has never worked very well for me and the virtual keyboard takes up the whole freakin screen. In the limited experience that I've had with PPCs, the handwriting recognition seemed much better and the large screen makes the keyboard more practical.

Still and all, Palm is not MS, and that's a plus. OS competition is a great thing. I think that the apps for Palm are more fully developed, though that may only be temporary. The TH-55 still calls me, with its astounding battery life and big screen and wifi, though why it seems to be consistantly priced $50 higher than the T|3 I don't quite understand. I'm simply in an exploratory phase, and I may stick with my T|E for a good while yet. (I should really use my birthday to upgrade my home CPU, which is seeming slower lately...) Hmmm. It does seem that Palm is going to have to make a move soon. Seems there are more like me who are testing the wind and trying to see which way things will go. Is it just me, or does it seem that for Palm a lot is hanging in the balance on their next moves? If OS6 lives up to the rumors, and Palm comes out with a round of innovative and competitive devices, they could extend their lease on life for a while. But if OS6 takes too long to arrive, and it's devices don't shine, I think that those watching the wind may begin to move over faster to the PPC platform.

So this thread has morphed from a request for product info into a discussion of the philosophy of Palm vs PPC. (Something that we should perhaps do a bit more of here. We're all pleasant folks and not prone to flaming, so I think that we're not likely to devolve into shouting matches...) Writing this all out has clarified things in my mind a bit, though I'm still not sure which direction I'll jump. I'm not nearly as well informed about industry developments as some of ya'll, and I would love to hear other perspectives from the rest of ya'll, whose opinions I respect above most others. And if I've misspoken on any point, please let me know.

cbarnett · 08-19-2004, 01:10 AM

The _biggest_ thing PPC's have over Palm OS? Multitasking..... I regularly have up to 8-9 programs running concurrently on my PPC at work. ie, I leave contacts, calendar, task manager, wallet software (stores and encrypts important info), Virtual CE (another nice utility that recreates my PPC in a windows on the PC desktop, mouse for stylus and keyboard input), ubook or another book reader (I've registeted isilo, mobipocket and ereader), pocket excel, and more. I can switch between any and all of these programs without having to leave, save, quit, whatever. This ability is priceless, if you ask me, and the biggest failing of Palm OS to date.

I don't know if I agree with your statement about the maturity of palm software compared to that for the PPC either. I do think the majority of good PPC software seems to cost more than that for Palms, but not always. I think both platforms have a large and mature base of software that caters for all of us.

As an owner of a Clie and ipaq, I've had recent cause to use both a lot, and found that I really do prefer the M$ interface (though I am a bit of a geek

). I find I can do so much more with my ipaq than I can with the Clie...

Craig.

Bob Russell · 08-19-2004, 06:57 AM

Some more info on VGA PPCs...
http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm
http://pocketpctools.com/modules.php...icle&sid2=1214

But the more I consider a jump, the more I realize how much I'm invested in PalmOS. So much software that I've trialed and/or purchased to get just the right ones, and I know what I can do and how to do it. I'm so dependent on programs like DateBk5, Shadow outliner and more that I've figured out how to use just right for my own needs. I can't imagine life without them until I am sure the PPC world can give me the same funtionality and screens that are just as pleasing to the eyes. And even if it can, I don't really want to have to figure all that out about how to make it all work just right for me.

I'll take a look at one more round of products from PalmOne and Zodiac. If they can get me something worth buying, I'm still staying PalmOS. If not, it's 50-50, but I may just make the plunge. For now I remind myself to be patient!

Funny about the T|E buttons wearing out. I have an SJ33 and I have the same problem. My main up/down button works great up, but is worn out clicking down. Sometimes doesn't register, and often double clicks on me. Very frustrating when reading!

The only PalmOS out there right now that I might really want is the Sony TH-55, but I'm not even considering it as Sony is out of the market and I'm kind of fed up with Sony's lack of support and it's passion for propritary everything. Zodiac might be a cool PDA if I found a really neat case for it. I don't care for the look of it "in the raw."

So Im' kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place with this one for now. Maybe I will start taking a look at those Zodiac cases if my SJ33 gets too frustrating. It might be a good "inbetween" model while I wait for a nice OS6.

ignatz · 08-19-2004, 08:16 AM

Quote:

But the more I consider a jump, the more I realize how much I'm invested in PalmOS.

It's funny Bob, because I almost don't feel that way. I like Palm OS quite a lot, don't get me wrong, but I suppose I always enjoy a new challenge. And though often a new interface presents new annoyances, it can also bring new solutions to old problems...

Quote:

The _biggest_ thing PPC's have over Palm OS? Multitasking..... I can switch between any and all of these programs without having to leave, save, quit, whatever. This ability is priceless, if you ask me, and the biggest failing of Palm OS to date.

Craig: I don't quite understand what is wrong with the Palm way of doing things. To date I have not felt like I needed multitasking, since all the programs stay in the setup that I left them. When I come back in to Agendus it is right where I left off. When I come back to iSilo or Plucker, my book is right where I left it. What would it gain me to have those programs actually running in the background?

ignatz · 08-19-2004, 09:51 AM

I've been reading a little more about the TH-55 and I'm beginning to lean away from it. Sony and all their proprietary crap makes me a little nervous, since there's no telling what future support will be like. I'm leaning more and more towards the Dells, though I still really don't know if I'll bite or not. I'm going to wait another couple months and see where things stand.

Does anyone have an idea when OS6 is supposed to come out? Will it make it out this year?

08-18-2004, 12:20 PM	#1
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	the dark side beckons: help me answer the call Okay, so I never thought the day would come, but I beginning to be seduced by the call of the dark side. I'm beginning to think seriously about migrating from my beloved T\|E to a PPC. But I'm clueless where to begin. Can someone please give me some recommendations as to what I should start looking at? I'd like something mid-range, like the T\|E is in the Palm world. I need good battery life, moderate price, and a true pocket-sized form factor, because I carry the damn thing around everywhere. While I'm buying something new, I would also like wireless (but not bluetooth), but it's not a dealbreaker if it's not included. Another plus would an SD card slot, as I already have an investment in them. I'm in no rush, but I can feel it in the air, and I would like to start browsing around. I would love to have a handful of options to look through, so if you know of some that don't quite fit my specs, feel free to throw them at me anyway. Your help is greatly appreciated.

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08-18-2004, 12:42 PM	#2
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	Also, are there any Pocket PC's that can function as phones on the Verizon network? I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a PPC phone, but hey, options are good...

08-18-2004, 01:35 PM	#3
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	Wow, I like the Axim X30 (even the mid version, with 312Mhz and wireless) and it's cheap! Anyone have any experience with that model?

08-18-2004, 02:47 PM	#4
sUnShInE Drama Queen Posts: 784 Karma: 11712 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T\|T3	Funny, that's what I was thinking about too (see earlier post). I'm still hesitating though. There's plenty of sites out there that preach to the potentially converted it seems, but I can't offer any first-person insight. Keep us posted on this difficult and highly personal decision.

08-18-2004, 04:31 PM	#5
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Make sure you get a 640x480 VGA device... I've seen them in stores, and they look wonderful to the eye!

08-18-2004, 05:39 PM	#6
Francesco Aficionado Posts: 391 Karma: 710 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Denver, CO, USA Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Touch	Why, Ignatz... why? I mean, seriously, what is the reason to change? I just ordered a T\|T3 (love at first sight), but in fact I have no reasons to "reelect" PalmOS (neither to change to PPC), except "incumbency". What are you looking for that can't be found in PalmOS? Aren't you gonna miss all those .pdbs and .prcs in your life? Good luck, and post your experience. I'm curious... ... will I be the next?

08-18-2004, 06:01 PM	#7
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	When again is the date for OS6? I think we have all a lot of expectations in OS6...

08-18-2004, 07:08 PM	#9
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	Being (one of) the resident PPC fanatic, I can only encourage you, ignatz! I do recommend shopping around, getting some advice. The best place to ask though, would be a PPC specific forum. There you can ask for recommendations on what others are using, what they like and don't like, etc, and get it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. VGA is _very_ nice, but there are only two models that currently support it (Toshiba and a new HP ipaq only just released). You may want to hold off another year or so (like I am) before taking the plunge there. Here are a couple of good PPC forums to check out: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/index.php http://www.pocketmatrix.com/ http://www.ipaqhq.com/ http://www.geekzone.co.nz/ Craig.

08-19-2004, 12:52 AM	#11
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	As I expected, the 640x480 machines are far and away past what I would be comfortable spending. I'm not an early adopter and tend to buy equipment that's a year or so out and middle of the field, so that I'm not paying top dollar. I literally carry my PDA with me all the time, including in the warehouse when I'm working fabrication (I like to listen to books on tape then) and I'm much more concerned about carrying $500 around than $200. Thanks for the links Bob and Craig. I agree, Bob, that I'm sure it's not all better in PPC land. I think that at the core I really feel that I need a bigger screen. I do a ton of reading and that damn little screen on the T\|E is going to hurt me. Even if the resolution is such that I can't get the same small font size, I think that such a large screen would be much easier on me. And a jog dial or something similar would be nice too. Something a little more adaptable to my insatiable reading. For some reason the T\|3 and it's weird slide-out mechanism has always turned me off, but in fairness, I've never had one in hand to see what it was really like. I'm definitely not a fan of M$, but I do think that I'm having a spell where I don't think that they're the devil, at least for now. I'm a small time network admin for about 15 computers, and lately Microsoft has been doing me right, loathe though I am to admit it. Thank god the days of Windows 98 are all but behind us now... All in all I'm not a huge fan of where Palms seem to be going. With Clie out, I think that a lot of the innovation is gone and certainly the heat is off Palm in that sort of competition. Now they just have to keep the Palm as a product afloat. If they can pull off a coup and unveil some well thought out OS6 devices I may reconsider, but I think that PPCs are where the new ideas are coming out. Much as I love my T\|E, it has its problems. The buttons were never great, and they are definitely showing their age, getting harder to respond. The device is only about 9 months old, and though it's had heavy use, I think that it should do better than that. I'll be pissed if the electronics last but the inputs fail. The text entry options pretty much suck. Graffiti has never worked very well for me and the virtual keyboard takes up the whole freakin screen. In the limited experience that I've had with PPCs, the handwriting recognition seemed much better and the large screen makes the keyboard more practical. Still and all, Palm is not MS, and that's a plus. OS competition is a great thing. I think that the apps for Palm are more fully developed, though that may only be temporary. The TH-55 still calls me, with its astounding battery life and big screen and wifi, though why it seems to be consistantly priced $50 higher than the T\|3 I don't quite understand. I'm simply in an exploratory phase, and I may stick with my T\|E for a good while yet. (I should really use my birthday to upgrade my home CPU, which is seeming slower lately...) Hmmm. It does seem that Palm is going to have to make a move soon. Seems there are more like me who are testing the wind and trying to see which way things will go. Is it just me, or does it seem that for Palm a lot is hanging in the balance on their next moves? If OS6 lives up to the rumors, and Palm comes out with a round of innovative and competitive devices, they could extend their lease on life for a while. But if OS6 takes too long to arrive, and it's devices don't shine, I think that those watching the wind may begin to move over faster to the PPC platform. So this thread has morphed from a request for product info into a discussion of the philosophy of Palm vs PPC. (Something that we should perhaps do a bit more of here. We're all pleasant folks and not prone to flaming, so I think that we're not likely to devolve into shouting matches...) Writing this all out has clarified things in my mind a bit, though I'm still not sure which direction I'll jump. I'm not nearly as well informed about industry developments as some of ya'll, and I would love to hear other perspectives from the rest of ya'll, whose opinions I respect above most others. And if I've misspoken on any point, please let me know.

08-19-2004, 01:10 AM	#12
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	The _biggest_ thing PPC's have over Palm OS? Multitasking..... I regularly have up to 8-9 programs running concurrently on my PPC at work. ie, I leave contacts, calendar, task manager, wallet software (stores and encrypts important info), Virtual CE (another nice utility that recreates my PPC in a windows on the PC desktop, mouse for stylus and keyboard input), ubook or another book reader (I've registeted isilo, mobipocket and ereader), pocket excel, and more. I can switch between any and all of these programs without having to leave, save, quit, whatever. This ability is priceless, if you ask me, and the biggest failing of Palm OS to date. I don't know if I agree with your statement about the maturity of palm software compared to that for the PPC either. I do think the majority of good PPC software seems to cost more than that for Palms, but not always. I think both platforms have a large and mature base of software that caters for all of us. As an owner of a Clie and ipaq, I've had recent cause to use both a lot, and found that I really do prefer the M$ interface (though I am a bit of a geek ). I find I can do so much more with my ipaq than I can with the Clie... Craig.

08-19-2004, 06:57 AM	#13
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Some more info on VGA PPCs... http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm http://pocketpctools.com/modules.php...icle&sid2=1214 But the more I consider a jump, the more I realize how much I'm invested in PalmOS. So much software that I've trialed and/or purchased to get just the right ones, and I know what I can do and how to do it. I'm so dependent on programs like DateBk5, Shadow outliner and more that I've figured out how to use just right for my own needs. I can't imagine life without them until I am sure the PPC world can give me the same funtionality and screens that are just as pleasing to the eyes. And even if it can, I don't really want to have to figure all that out about how to make it all work just right for me. I'll take a look at one more round of products from PalmOne and Zodiac. If they can get me something worth buying, I'm still staying PalmOS. If not, it's 50-50, but I may just make the plunge. For now I remind myself to be patient! Funny about the T\|E buttons wearing out. I have an SJ33 and I have the same problem. My main up/down button works great up, but is worn out clicking down. Sometimes doesn't register, and often double clicks on me. Very frustrating when reading! The only PalmOS out there right now that I might really want is the Sony TH-55, but I'm not even considering it as Sony is out of the market and I'm kind of fed up with Sony's lack of support and it's passion for propritary everything. Zodiac might be a cool PDA if I found a really neat case for it. I don't care for the look of it "in the raw." So Im' kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place with this one for now. Maybe I will start taking a look at those Zodiac cases if my SJ33 gets too frustrating. It might be a good "inbetween" model while I wait for a nice OS6.

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08-19-2004, 09:51 AM	#15
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	I've been reading a little more about the TH-55 and I'm beginning to lean away from it. Sony and all their proprietary crap makes me a little nervous, since there's no telling what future support will be like. I'm leaning more and more towards the Dells, though I still really don't know if I'll bite or not. I'm going to wait another couple months and see where things stand. Does anyone have an idea when OS6 is supposed to come out? Will it make it out this year?