e-ink reader for maths?

_icecream · 08-19-2010, 05:51 PM

hi all. did a search, but could find anything, so here's a new thread

as the title says, looking to buy and ereader that will handle mathematics texts well... i think something that would support easy zooming, and switching portrait/landscape would be an ideal start. and naturally must be able to display equations correctly. annotation would be a nice bonus.

thanks for any help!

Anarel · 08-19-2010, 06:10 PM

It depends...

If your textbooks are in PDF format then a number of devices will suit your purpose. As of software version 2.5, the Kindle can zoom in on pdf documents, and all Kindles have landscape/portrait orientation.

Kindle Software version 3.0 allows one to make annotation on pdf documents, as well a highlight and use the dictionary.

brecklundin · 08-20-2010, 09:26 PM

A couple of my degrees are in mathematics I fully understand the desire for a reader that will help with the learning process or research process, heck, even just reading papers for the fun if it, but...in a word, there is not a single reader device that operates in what I feel is a useful fashion as a learning/research tool for the given subject. The closest would be the Entourage Edge, maybe an iPad or other slatePC, or in general a 9.7" reader. I had hopes for the iRex 1000S (or whatever the designation of the 1000 was) but never got around to asking HarryT.

A lot also depends on the format of the books you have access to, if those books make use of color to indicate equation changes as a proof progresses or to delimit important segments of the equations in question.

For many older, say pre-1970s era texts, odds are any 9"-10" device should be OK, but again it comes down to file format handling. I don't know any readers which handle any of the file formats, beyond PDF of course, from Mathematica/MathCAD or other programs, which, for those who don't know, are in-part the word processors of the math world.

I gotta say that today's modern texts and papers for mathematics make such wonderful use of color, you are likely going to end up with an LCD based device as your best option. Of course if all you want is to read, even if the inset graphics might be pretty disjointed from where they should be in the text and can handle a fair amount of zooming around the screen, I would suggest a device with at least a 9.7" panel...however a 12" panel is far better as a "Mendoza Line"...

I have seriously looked around and none of the device makers have anything right now that I see as viable...

We I to need one, and at this point in life I don't, I would have to look at dealing with the cost of a true slatePC of a convertible tabletPC. I like any of the TabletKiosk Sahara 400 family of devices, probably the i440D would be the choice but be prepared for a $3000 cost. But it has the power to run the underlying software to support the documents as well as work with multiple docs at the same time, including a Wacom digitizer so you could actually take notes and even work problems on the device...combine that with OneNote or Evernote or other similar note management app. Plus the i440D is fully readable in sunlight which is nice when you want out of the library/office/home to study.

I guess the ultimate answer depends on what you want to do with the tool...and what shortcomings are worth spending the funds on for a device you likely will not find all that transparent in your study work-flow.

Wish my take on the options was better but right now, I don't see anything...yet...I wish one of the device makers would consider working with Wolfram Research to embed some version of they one of they math oriented apps, maybe only the reader, paper writing parts because obviously the modeling portions would never run on the current hardware used in these readers.

http://www.wolfram.com/

But nothing is really ready for other than a PDF and even then the lack of color will be at best bothersome and at worst discouraging from using the device at all for the purpose you intend.

brecklundin · 08-20-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarel

It depends...

If your textbooks are in PDF format then a number of devices will suit your purpose. As of software version 2.5, the Kindle can zoom in on pdf documents, and all Kindles have landscape/portrait orientation.

Kindle Software version 3.0 allows one to make annotation on pdf documents, as well a highlight and use the dictionary.

good luck trying to write equations as margin notes on any of today's devices other than real computers. It's simply not possible. Studying math requires the ability to record such equation based notes, in this field we rarely need to write words, we use symbols.

_icecream · 08-21-2010, 01:04 AM

thanks for info folks.

just want something that can do a decent job of pdf files really. just for reading papers etc.

brecklundin · 08-21-2010, 03:10 AM

cool, the I would look at the Kindle DX Graphite as an option. Really, I think it's the only large format device, >=9", save for the iPad, that is out there with good PDF handling.

I think your expectations are reasonable for now...but know it is, well, different, trying to read technical works on an ereader. I am not saying it's bad really, one that it is very different than paper. But it sure would be nice if you had to otherwise carry a stack of papers with you.

I do seem to recall the DXG has some short comings in the search area for PDF's...maybe read in the Kindle forum here.

I think the price of the DXG is really attractive right now....and other companies have been promising larger format readers for a while now. But nothing seems to me showing up. Honestly I like the potential of the Entourage Edge but have not kept up on how it's working out. The trade off there is obviously size and weight. But you gain Android OS and dual panels, one LCD and one Eink brand panel. But as I recall the version of Android is an older one which might make some things impossible and there might be no way to upgrade the OS on the device...something I came to learn to watch for thanks to the POS Nokia N800 I have and loathe on most days after they broke a the camera with an OS update that could not be undone...sigh...

I seem to recall that people like the Opus as a PDF device but I don't think they have a large format reader yet...but their touch screen/pen is supposed to be pretty neat. If Dulin's Books finds this thread he should be a lot of help. Same for HarryT.

anthony_barker · 08-21-2010, 08:30 AM

t91mt - so you can also use R, python (numpy) etc. Reading pdf may not be as smooth as ipad - but the device is more useful.

Linux works on the machine - but the gma 500 drivers are a bit iffy and touch isn't as well supported as larger tablets (t101mt etc).

That said it is fanless, about the same weight as the ipad and about $200 cheaper.

Another alternative if you don't mind the weight is a used toshiba m200...

JSWolf · 08-21-2010, 08:35 AM

If you are looking to be able to view PDF, forget any reader with a 6" screen or smaller.

paaThaka · 09-15-2010, 07:39 AM

I would love a mathematics oriented reader. For me it would need to have a high resolution and big viewing area (like the Skiff had) and definitely djvu support. There are so many old and out-of-print books available in djvu format that not having this support would be a big miss.

Unfortunately, such a device does not yet exist.

Dulin's Books · 09-15-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brecklundin

good luck trying to write equations as margin notes on any of today's devices other than real computers. It's simply not possible. Studying math requires the ability to record such equation based notes, in this field we rarely need to write words, we use symbols.

au contraire mon frere- with a digitizer and proper zoom it is possible

With the Boox you can zoom in to a spot, write your note with the stylus and then zoom out to normal page size. Your note is now the same size as the text

the new PocketBooks should (havent tried it yet) also accomplish this and they have the trick new reflow ability to reflow the images in the pdf with the text.

JSWolf is correct that MOST devices less than the 9.7 inch size are not adequate for PDFs but the Onyx and PocketBook devices are teh exception. It's the reason I chose to sell them, they offer incredible PDF viewers that make it possible to view even most technical PDFs on the 6 inch devices.

atom44 · 10-05-2010, 04:15 PM

I've been using a DR800S (8.1" screen) for some meths revision over the last 2 months. I found that the better screen resolution on the DR800 make it quite easy to read the math equations(ebook quality dependent) so long as you have good eye sight.

I'm using RC3 on my irex which is not brillant on the battery life but does have the scribbing functions on pdf and notepad for just notes. The screen resolution allows for a fine pen line on the screen which can be seen on zoom of the pdf but not on resize font(reflow).

I have read around 2 to 3 math ebooks on my current device and will be using it for my course material this year so far I've been happy with it.

08-19-2010, 05:51 PM	#1
_icecream Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: none	e-ink reader for maths? hi all. did a search, but could find anything, so here's a new thread as the title says, looking to buy and ereader that will handle mathematics texts well... i think something that would support easy zooming, and switching portrait/landscape would be an ideal start. and naturally must be able to display equations correctly. annotation would be a nice bonus. thanks for any help!

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08-19-2010, 06:10 PM	#2
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	It depends... If your textbooks are in PDF format then a number of devices will suit your purpose. As of software version 2.5, the Kindle can zoom in on pdf documents, and all Kindles have landscape/portrait orientation. Kindle Software version 3.0 allows one to make annotation on pdf documents, as well a highlight and use the dictionary.

08-20-2010, 09:26 PM	#3
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	A couple of my degrees are in mathematics I fully understand the desire for a reader that will help with the learning process or research process, heck, even just reading papers for the fun if it, but...in a word, there is not a single reader device that operates in what I feel is a useful fashion as a learning/research tool for the given subject. The closest would be the Entourage Edge, maybe an iPad or other slatePC, or in general a 9.7" reader. I had hopes for the iRex 1000S (or whatever the designation of the 1000 was) but never got around to asking HarryT. A lot also depends on the format of the books you have access to, if those books make use of color to indicate equation changes as a proof progresses or to delimit important segments of the equations in question. For many older, say pre-1970s era texts, odds are any 9"-10" device should be OK, but again it comes down to file format handling. I don't know any readers which handle any of the file formats, beyond PDF of course, from Mathematica/MathCAD or other programs, which, for those who don't know, are in-part the word processors of the math world. I gotta say that today's modern texts and papers for mathematics make such wonderful use of color, you are likely going to end up with an LCD based device as your best option. Of course if all you want is to read, even if the inset graphics might be pretty disjointed from where they should be in the text and can handle a fair amount of zooming around the screen, I would suggest a device with at least a 9.7" panel...however a 12" panel is far better as a "Mendoza Line"... I have seriously looked around and none of the device makers have anything right now that I see as viable... We I to need one, and at this point in life I don't, I would have to look at dealing with the cost of a true slatePC of a convertible tabletPC. I like any of the TabletKiosk Sahara 400 family of devices, probably the i440D would be the choice but be prepared for a $3000 cost. But it has the power to run the underlying software to support the documents as well as work with multiple docs at the same time, including a Wacom digitizer so you could actually take notes and even work problems on the device...combine that with OneNote or Evernote or other similar note management app. Plus the i440D is fully readable in sunlight which is nice when you want out of the library/office/home to study. I guess the ultimate answer depends on what you want to do with the tool...and what shortcomings are worth spending the funds on for a device you likely will not find all that transparent in your study work-flow. Wish my take on the options was better but right now, I don't see anything...yet...I wish one of the device makers would consider working with Wolfram Research to embed some version of they one of they math oriented apps, maybe only the reader, paper writing parts because obviously the modeling portions would never run on the current hardware used in these readers. http://www.wolfram.com/ But nothing is really ready for other than a PDF and even then the lack of color will be at best bothersome and at worst discouraging from using the device at all for the purpose you intend.

08-21-2010, 01:04 AM	#5
_icecream Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: none	thanks for info folks. just want something that can do a decent job of pdf files really. just for reading papers etc.

08-21-2010, 03:10 AM	#6
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	cool, the I would look at the Kindle DX Graphite as an option. Really, I think it's the only large format device, >=9", save for the iPad, that is out there with good PDF handling. I think your expectations are reasonable for now...but know it is, well, different, trying to read technical works on an ereader. I am not saying it's bad really, one that it is very different than paper. But it sure would be nice if you had to otherwise carry a stack of papers with you. I do seem to recall the DXG has some short comings in the search area for PDF's...maybe read in the Kindle forum here. I think the price of the DXG is really attractive right now....and other companies have been promising larger format readers for a while now. But nothing seems to me showing up. Honestly I like the potential of the Entourage Edge but have not kept up on how it's working out. The trade off there is obviously size and weight. But you gain Android OS and dual panels, one LCD and one Eink brand panel. But as I recall the version of Android is an older one which might make some things impossible and there might be no way to upgrade the OS on the device...something I came to learn to watch for thanks to the POS Nokia N800 I have and loathe on most days after they broke a the camera with an OS update that could not be undone...sigh... I seem to recall that people like the Opus as a PDF device but I don't think they have a large format reader yet...but their touch screen/pen is supposed to be pretty neat. If Dulin's Books finds this thread he should be a lot of help. Same for HarryT.

08-21-2010, 08:30 AM	#7
anthony_barker Member Posts: 15 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: PB360, nokia n900	t91mt - so you can also use R, python (numpy) etc. Reading pdf may not be as smooth as ipad - but the device is more useful. Linux works on the machine - but the gma 500 drivers are a bit iffy and touch isn't as well supported as larger tablets (t101mt etc). That said it is fanless, about the same weight as the ipad and about $200 cheaper. Another alternative if you don't mind the weight is a used toshiba m200...

08-21-2010, 08:35 AM	#8
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,958 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	If you are looking to be able to view PDF, forget any reader with a 6" screen or smaller.

09-15-2010, 07:39 AM	#9
paaThaka Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 499216 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	I would love a mathematics oriented reader. For me it would need to have a high resolution and big viewing area (like the Skiff had) and definitely djvu support. There are so many old and out-of-print books available in djvu format that not having this support would be a big miss. Unfortunately, such a device does not yet exist.

10-05-2010, 04:15 PM	#11
atom44 Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: irex dr800	I've been using a DR800S (8.1" screen) for some meths revision over the last 2 months. I found that the better screen resolution on the DR800 make it quite easy to read the math equations(ebook quality dependent) so long as you have good eye sight. I'm using RC3 on my irex which is not brillant on the battery life but does have the scribbing functions on pdf and notepad for just notes. The screen resolution allows for a fine pen line on the screen which can be seen on zoom of the pdf but not on resize font(reflow). I have read around 2 to 3 math ebooks on my current device and will be using it for my course material this year so far I've been happy with it.

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