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yvanleterrible · 04-29-2010, 07:41 AM

Most everyone is a novice to the EV world, so I'll give a brief glossary up front.

EV: Electric Vehicle.
PV: Photovoltaic. A cell that transforms sunlight to electricity, not to be confused with a solar collector that heats liquids for energy.
ICE: Internal Combustion Engine.

Current PVs are in the 12% efficiency right now. The best at about 16% at twice the price. Many PVs from China barely get 10%. The best that's been attained in laboratory so far is around 35% but they're heavy and extraordinairely ovepriced.

I don't think that PVs on an EV is achievable for some time unless there's a scientific break. The best alternative is to cover parking grounds with PV covered roofs. PV covered parking spaces have other benefits. They shade the cars from the sun so it is not as hot when you get in to it then less power to cool it down. Less sunshine on a car will also lengthen the life of plastic and composite parts. We all know a car in a garage lasts longer. Roofs will also help with snow and freezing rain management. Extra power can be harnassed for other use.

An electric motor has an average of 90% efficiency. An ICE, 30%.
BTW A light car does not need a powersteering.

The American type of car is passé and not sustainable, period. Until the public get's it in its thick selfish head, nothing of serious meaning can be obtained.
VEHICLES ARE TOO BIG, TOO FAST, TOO HEAVY AND TOO MANY FOR SUSTAINED LIFE...

BTW there are statistics about fuel use that I can't find right now. Those statistics are not what one would think to be right but I'll give a rough estimate.
The moving of people in cars, buses and trains makes up for 25% of petroleum uses. Transport of goods by trucking and train about 30% but going up. Shipping overseas takes a LOT of petroleum and so do airplanes. The rest is for electrical energy production, industry and mining.

Why do I bring this in such an incomplete form of statistic? To say that moving people is not what we have to worry about the most but the one part we can personnally affect. What we have to worry about is moving materials on long distances. No definitive advances are possible for great ships, airplanes and mining equipment. They will always depend on petroleum as long as we use them. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can do something for the way we move about. That's why we have to pressure vehicle makers to at least allow us alternatives. EVs have existed long before the introduction of the internal combustion engine. We've been made to think they're not useful but it's not true. Vehicle manufacturers have made advancements in battery and components years ago and have never wished to go the electric way because the oil lobby is strong and compelling. But that's my paranoia. It's a fact that there's prejudice and wilful misinformation about the EV. I fight it every day up to the point that I rarely mention my passion for EVs anymore.

If I go back to the price of EVs... There goes my paranoia again.
There are fewer parts in an EV than in an ICE vehicle. Make your own jugment. A typical ICE car has from 5,000 to 12,000 parts. An EV has 2,000 to 4,000 parts....A hybrid car, 8,000 to 15,000?
LIthium Ion batteries are expensive... There's as much lithium on the planet as there is iron and it's as easy to mine...
Solar cells are expensive... PVs are made mostly of silica, it's the same as sand and glass, it's the most abundent material on earth...

There are cheaper alternatives than the BYD and the Nissan Leaf. The Think City for example, it's available in Europe and has been for ten years. The Think was developped by Ford in the US. I've driven one at the EVS 2000 symposium in Montréal. Loved it!
At just a little bigger size than a Smart car its a brilliant concept. Light, responsive, with an autonomy of 125km, its outer body is built of recycled plastics and the whole of the car is recyclable. It sells for around $20,000. If it were built on a higher scale it would be cheaper than a Yaris. But it does not fit in the traditionality of a typical ICE car so they won't build it. That's sad. And the same can be said of any vehicle that does not fit in the "typical" mold.

There's still too much to say so I'll stop right here...

04-29-2010, 07:41 AM	#45
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Most everyone is a novice to the EV world, so I'll give a brief glossary up front. EV: Electric Vehicle. PV: Photovoltaic. A cell that transforms sunlight to electricity, not to be confused with a solar collector that heats liquids for energy. ICE: Internal Combustion Engine. Current PVs are in the 12% efficiency right now. The best at about 16% at twice the price. Many PVs from China barely get 10%. The best that's been attained in laboratory so far is around 35% but they're heavy and extraordinairely ovepriced. I don't think that PVs on an EV is achievable for some time unless there's a scientific break. The best alternative is to cover parking grounds with PV covered roofs. PV covered parking spaces have other benefits. They shade the cars from the sun so it is not as hot when you get in to it then less power to cool it down. Less sunshine on a car will also lengthen the life of plastic and composite parts. We all know a car in a garage lasts longer. Roofs will also help with snow and freezing rain management. Extra power can be harnassed for other use. An electric motor has an average of 90% efficiency. An ICE, 30%. BTW A light car does not need a powersteering. The American type of car is passé and not sustainable, period. Until the public get's it in its thick selfish head, nothing of serious meaning can be obtained. VEHICLES ARE TOO BIG, TOO FAST, TOO HEAVY AND TOO MANY FOR SUSTAINED LIFE... BTW there are statistics about fuel use that I can't find right now. Those statistics are not what one would think to be right but I'll give a rough estimate. The moving of people in cars, buses and trains makes up for 25% of petroleum uses. Transport of goods by trucking and train about 30% but going up. Shipping overseas takes a LOT of petroleum and so do airplanes. The rest is for electrical energy production, industry and mining. Why do I bring this in such an incomplete form of statistic? To say that moving people is not what we have to worry about the most but the one part we can personnally affect. What we have to worry about is moving materials on long distances. No definitive advances are possible for great ships, airplanes and mining equipment. They will always depend on petroleum as long as we use them. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can do something for the way we move about. That's why we have to pressure vehicle makers to at least allow us alternatives. EVs have existed long before the introduction of the internal combustion engine. We've been made to think they're not useful but it's not true. Vehicle manufacturers have made advancements in battery and components years ago and have never wished to go the electric way because the oil lobby is strong and compelling. But that's my paranoia. It's a fact that there's prejudice and wilful misinformation about the EV. I fight it every day up to the point that I rarely mention my passion for EVs anymore. If I go back to the price of EVs... There goes my paranoia again. There are fewer parts in an EV than in an ICE vehicle. Make your own jugment. A typical ICE car has from 5,000 to 12,000 parts. An EV has 2,000 to 4,000 parts....A hybrid car, 8,000 to 15,000? LIthium Ion batteries are expensive... There's as much lithium on the planet as there is iron and it's as easy to mine... Solar cells are expensive... PVs are made mostly of silica, it's the same as sand and glass, it's the most abundent material on earth... There are cheaper alternatives than the BYD and the Nissan Leaf. The Think City for example, it's available in Europe and has been for ten years. The Think was developped by Ford in the US. I've driven one at the EVS 2000 symposium in Montréal. Loved it! At just a little bigger size than a Smart car its a brilliant concept. Light, responsive, with an autonomy of 125km, its outer body is built of recycled plastics and the whole of the car is recyclable. It sells for around $20,000. If it were built on a higher scale it would be cheaper than a Yaris. But it does not fit in the traditionality of a typical ICE car so they won't build it. That's sad. And the same can be said of any vehicle that does not fit in the "typical" mold. There's still too much to say so I'll stop right here... Last edited by yvanleterrible; 04-29-2010 at 08:26 AM.