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Originally Posted by Sweetpea
Ok, let's ask you then, what about wool? No animal was harmed in producing that. Or milk? A cow, goat or horse will always give milk if they have young, more than enough to share with us humans.
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I disagree that cows are not harmed in being milked. Cows are kept indefinitely in narrow pens and hooked up to IV's where they are fed intravenous hormones to keep them producing the milk long after their own calves have grown up. They are attached to cold metal machines so they can be milked often every day, without stop. By drinking the milk, not only are you supporting this treatment, you are ingesting the same hormones. (Which many studies have deduced has caused adolescents to sexually mature years earlier than our ancestors.)
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Originally Posted by griffonwing
Oooooh, I sense a battle of wits coming! I hope the combatants come armed!
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I am not here for battle. I was asked to share my opinion and I did. I think we can all have a nice adult conversation without it turning into name calling and taunts.
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Originally Posted by griffonwing
I think both sides have their negative impacts.
ANIMALS
Yes, some/many/most of the huge meat farms don't give a toss about the care of the animal in question. After all, they will soon be out of their misery, and in my casserole dish, so really, what should it matter? I'm sure this is the point of view of most people in the trade, from chicken farms, to turkey farms, to cattle farms. They raise animals solely to use for food.
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Since they will soon be out of their misery, it's okay to treat them however you see fit until then? That seems to me a mentality more fit for a serial killer.
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Originally Posted by griffonwing
VEGGIES
Think about the farms. All of the pesticides needed for the vast acres and acres of grain, corn, tomoatoes, and other veggies, and fruit orchards . All of this DDT and other pesticides get into the ground, in the water tables and can eventually get into your drinking water. Especially if you live near a farm and you have a well. At any rate, it's worse for the environment and land than the treatment of the animals.
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Who says we have to use all of these pesticides? There are thousands of farms out there that use natural, non-chemical, ways to treat pests. It's called organic farming. Sure, it costs a little extra, but I think it's worth it to keep crap like that out of my body.
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Originally Posted by griffonwing
As far as treatment, I don't think you can put us (meat-eaters) in the same category as those who actually do the raising/shearing/slaughtering. Yes, we partake, so we encourage the slaughter of the animals for use in our casseroles. But your partaking of the veggies also encourage the use of DDT and other nasty pesticides that can kill natural wildlife.
So really, it's lose/lose, no matter what type of food you eat. Animal or vegetable, we all do our part.
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Again, by my partaking in buying only organic fruits and vegetables, I abolutely do not encourage the use of chemical pesticides. And because I choose not to fill my body with the decaying flesh of rotting animals, I do not have anything to do with the cruel mistreatment of animals.
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Originally Posted by Icarusbop
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don't 'get' vegetarians at all.
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Nor do I understand what would posess someone to eat something that had parents, internal organs, instincts and feelings. Why not dogs and cats? Babies and small children?
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Originally Posted by Icarusbop
Rubbish, we are designed to eat meat, hence the canine teeth for tearing meat.
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The canine teeth are vestiges of our past when our only options were to kill wild animals to get our nourishment. Before we evolved and learn to farm and garden.
You'll notice that you have quite a few more flat, broad teeth to chew, grind and crush coarser food like root vegetables and nuts.
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Originally Posted by Icarusbop
Moral ground: There isn't any really, animals are there to be eaten ( 'if we aren't supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?') I'm prettry certain Lions or(insert big predator of your choice here) doesn't go on much of a guilt trip when they get to eat people... - sure it would be nice to have all the hens, sheep, pigs (etc.) running around in fields but they don't (for various reasons) and not eating meat because of it's history does not make you morally better IMO.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't remember the last time a lion or (insert big predator of my choice) sat down and had an intellectual conversation with someone. A lion is doing what it naturally does. Lions have no higher consciousness to guide them and so can not distinguish between right and wrong. Unlike most humans.
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Originally Posted by Icarusbop
Exploiting animals: yeah well, that just tough - that happens when another organism is at the top (or very close) of the food chain. No guilt there either.
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Because we humans happened to be the species that rose to the top of the food chain, that gives us carte blanche to treat those below us as we see fit? Does that work in social circles? In business? Does the supervisor not have to treat his/her underlings with respect?
Okay, please don't anybody think that I am singling you out to insult you. This kind of thing tends to get me worked up!