Quote:
Originally Posted by Milarepa
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."
Benjamin Franklin
I find this thread exceptionally disturbing it what it implies with regards to American's attitudes about civil liberties. I am ashamed that the only people who seem to be concerned about OUR civil liberties are foreign citizens, and when they point out to us that we are in danger of losing civil liberties our response consists of insults and their being told to shut up and mind their own business (so to speak.)
I am not impressed with a law degree, particularly when it is waved so flagrantly under people's noses with the belief that this gives that person the right to be dismissive, rude, and arrogant. I personally believe this to be the biggest problem with the legal profession. I also sincerely wish that all of the attorneys would pack up and leave Washington or at least stop writing laws in such a way that it takes years of schooling to be able to even voice an opinion about them, but I guess we all need job security huh?
We can have freedom or security, and I for one would much rather live a free man than die securely in a cage of our own making.
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OK .... let us examine the ignorance of that one statement. The system of government in the United States has three branches. Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Are you with me so far??
The Legislative branch of our government is made up of elected representatives who, once elected to either (1) the House of Representatives (number of members determined by population, and (2) the Senate (two per state). It is the Legislative branch of the government that proposes, drafts, and debates laws in the United States.
There is no requirement of a law degree in order to be a member of the Legislative branch. Therefore, even if every attorney left DC ... the same people writing the laws (in their typically convoluted manner) would still be there.
Ditto the Executive branch. No requirement of a law degree. Not really relevant to the statement, but just saying.
Now, what you would have, if every attorney left DC, is an absent Judicial Branch. Oh, there would be people there, just no one with any understanding of the law. Oh, and no one to provide a free defense to the indigent. How .... lovely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milarepa
I am really surprised! I was under the assumption that law school and the legal profession in general required high reading comprehension skills, I guess the best of us can be mistaken.
My post was not about living in an entirely free, entirely safe society. In fact, it is just the opposite. You can EITHER have freedom or you can have security. The two principles do not co-exist very well. It seems to me that too many Americans have already decided they would prefer security. We will pay for that some day.
This is entirely about civil liberties. Do you honestly believe it is correct for the government to suspend civil liberties just because somebody has broken the law? Do you think that it is okay for the government of the United States to disregard privacy and freedom on the off chance that they will protect us? Do you think that Hitler's Germany started out with the atrocities in which it ended, or do you think it was a gradual buildup? Yes I am equating the current disregard for personal and civil liberties in this country to Hitler's Germany, we are on a very dangerous road, and it is long past time that we wake up and realize that the government is wrong! We will lose our own freedoms after those whom they are profiling now, and we will wonder how it got to this point.
You will never find a place that is completely secure that is also free, but I personally choose freedom.
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Unfortunately, border searches are NOT about civil liberties. So while your post may be about nothing but civil liberties, the thread ... which concerns border searches, is not.
Since you have decided that the United States is on par with Hitler's Germany, then my advice to you is to flee with as much haste as possible.
I happen to prefer to live in a country where there is a balance between freedom and security. I like at least a modicum of security. I also like to see pedophiles arrested, and drug smugglers arrested. If border searches help to do that ... then I'm all for the border search.
You know .... I can remember back to when I was 5 years old (so that's 51 years ago), and crossing the border into the US after being abroad. The point at which we crossed was under an agricultural quarantine, and they were not allowing certain items into the country. Do you know ... those rotten border agents had the nerve to
confiscate not search, but confiscate my orange??? I mean ... the nerve .... that they should violate the civil rights of a five year old simply because they were trying to prevent the destruction of their own orange crop. Well, I never.
The thing is, the confiscation of that single orange was not a violation of my civil rights .... I did not and do not have a "civil right" that allows me to bring in illegal goods to this country.
So ... we'll just leave it at that. You are not impressed with me .... I am certainly not impressed with you. And, we'll just agree to disagree. Do send us a postcard from where ever you decide to move. May you have a long and happy life with tons of freedom and no security whatsoever.