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Old 11-07-2010, 07:51 PM   #81
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf
One of the major issues besides the price is that there the Agency Model will not allow sales or discounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
To be more precise, the agency model does not allow retailers to hack n' slash prices at will, e.g. no specific retailer has a price advantage. The publishers can discount any book they like, at any time, for any reason. And I might add, they often do -- e.g. NYT Bestsellers, plus prices do decrease, there's tiered pricing based on how long the book is out etc.
It's not a matter of hacking and slashing. I get email from Borders that gives me 25-40% off. I cannot apply this to eBooks. Why? Because the Agency 5 say I cannot. But I can apply this to the pBook. It's the same content. So why is the container an issue when it comes to sales/discounts?

We used to get discount codes in email from eBook shops and could actually use them to buy any eBook we wanted. Can we do that now? No. Why not? Because the Agency 5 say we cannot. Bookstores ca put any paper books they want on sale. They can give us a hardcover at 50% off lowering the price lower then the eBook version. But can the eBook version be lowered at all on sale? No. The Agency 5 is out to shaft us. What they are doing is driving more and more people to libraries and the darknet to get eBooks. And once people find out about these resources, sales will plummet. So is a sale of $0 better then a sale of say $9.99?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf
Also, the publishers fail to realize something important. People who want the eBook DO NOT WANT the hardcover. They do not want to pay hardcover price.

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No, what people want is to pay next to nothing, as they curse at the people who are risking their money to get the work to the public in a presentable fashion.

However, the reality is that hardcovers are not more expensive because they cost more to produce. The premium price is actually due to the mechanics of supply and demand; the different form is merely a thin veneer on this process. If you want the book as soon as it's released, you pay a premium for that -- and there is absolutely no reason why this dynamic should change just because the product is digital instead of physical.
No, This is way wrong. A lot of people who read eBooks are doing so because they don't buy hardcovers. They don't want to pay that much for a book. They are the ones who waited for the mass market paperback at a much lower cost then the hardcover. The issue here is not a matter of wanting to pay almost nothing. The issue here is not wanting to get ripped-off and paying too much is getting ripped-off. We also get ripped off when the hardcover goes to paperback and the price lowers and yet the eBook is still sitting there at the hardcover price.

I was OK paying $9.99 for an eBook that was out in hardcover that I wanted there and then. I am not OK paying $12.99-$19.99 for an eBook. A book I want now can sell to me for $9.99 and a sale is made or it can sit at $12.99-$19.99 and no sale is made. Which would the publisher & author rather? The sale at a more reasonable price or no sale at a rip-off price?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf
Also, according to the terms and conditions, the eBook has less going for it the then pBook and thus should be priced less due to these restrictions.

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No, it doesn't. It has a different set of abilities and restrictions than paper.

You can't duplicate a paper book for free, instantaneously, at no cost; you can't get a paper book sent to you instantly in any location you have an Internet connection; etc etc. Paper has its own set of restrictions that are built into the medium itself.
But with an eBook, you are not allowed (supposedly) to remove the DRM. So I cannot then take an eBook bought from Sony and use it on a K3. I cannot resell the eBook. I cannot lend the eBook to just anyone I wanted to. I cannot give the eBook away. I cannot donate the eBook to charity. Sure, I can do the things you said. But if I wasn't into DRM removal/format shifting, there's a lot less I can do then I can do.

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Originally Posted by JSWolf
All of this nonsense undermines the value of an eBook vs a pBook. So why are we paying the same or more? Where is the value in that?

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Because in a medium where supply is essentially unlimited, you're paying based on demand, value, industry norms and the like. Cost merely sets the ground floor for the price.
The demand is for the prices to be reasonable and the value is less given all the things I just stated you cannot do with an eBook. I know there is a cost associated with producing an eBook. But we know the cost is less then the cost of a pBook. So no eBook should ever be priced higher then the pBook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf
You have a book out in hardcover that say goes got $25. the eBook is priced at say $14.99. The think is, would you rather have say 5 sales of the eBook at $14.99 for a grand total of $74.95 or say 10 sales of the eBook at $9.99 for 99.90?

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That depends entirely on the distribution of revenues and the margins.

If the publisher is making $10 from the $25 hardcover, and $3 from the $10 ebook, they need to sell 3.3 times as many copies just to break even. And of course, in the process you are not merely giving consumers a massive price break, you're cheapening the value of your product and giving authors a much lower royalty per book.

As is the case in most businesses, Margins > Volume. If you don't believe me, start your own ebook publishing business with cut-rate prices and let us know how it works for you.
But the $3 profit they would be making from the eBook priced at $10 is $3 more then they would be making when the eBook is priced at $12.99-$19.99 and I'm not buying it.

Look at BAEN. They sell eBooks reasonably and give away a lot for free and yet they MAKE A PROFIT WITH EBOOKS. How is that done? They do it by not treating the customer like an idiot. For one, they do not have the high costs associated with DRM. And they price their eBooks reasonably. If you want to get an ARC copy now instead of waiting, you will pay a premium price, but that's it. They know their customers and how to treat them with respect.

Give your answers, it looks like you work for the Agency 5 and agree with their tactics.
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