[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Ideology vs. religion...To quote Bullwinkle (out of context), "There's a difference?"

What's the difference between promoting a defined religion or Marxist dialectic?

The difference is that the government's not allowed to support religious activities; it *is* allowed to support other ideologies. (Sorting out "what is a religion" can be another nightmare, but that's mostly not part of this debate. It does get entertaining when some sects of Christianity claim their religious beliefs are secular.)

Originally Posted by nguirado

You can't talk about history without talking about religion- a lot.

Agreed.

You can say that saying positive things about the effects of Christianity is "promoting" it, but then why isn't saying negative things attacking it, which is also bad, no?

"Saying positive things" is not promoting it. "Only reporting those historical events which show it in a good light, and skipping over those that modern people would find abhorrent," is promoting it. Same for the other direction: saying it's done evil things is not attacking it; saying it's done evil things without mentioning the good is attacking it.

Now, to return to a previous theme. Islam and other religions are treated more respectfully by liberals because those are seen as the oppressed religions in the West and the left in the West has a long history of antagonism towards Christianity, which stands in the way of many of its dreams.

Do you believe that Islam, Buddhism, Hindu religions, Paganism, and Judaism are not oppressed religions in the US?

Left histories treat Aztec religion more respectfully than Christianity. In my kids school, Aztec dancers were much more frequent than anything remotely Christian even though most parents were Christians. Weird, huh?

This is probably not the place for the lecture about how any religious rites mostly practiced by dark-skinned people was considered, for a long time, "not a religion" but a "quaint folk-culture practice."

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I'll agree with that-- Christians stand in the way of many of my dreams-- dreams of fully equal rights (including marrage) for gays, dreams of women continuing to have abortion rights, dreams of serious science literacy in the US... yes, you make a true statement. The struggle of the past decades and centuries has been to gain rights that go above and beyond what Christians thought was exactly as things should be.

It's not Christianity that stands in the way, but some sects of it. Portugal and Spain are hardly known as hotbeds of liberal or Islamic thinking, and they allow same-sex marriage. Abortion rights are common throughout Europe.

Science literacy, at this point, isn't so much waiting on Christianity (although some sects are interfering with it) but adequate funding for competent teaching methods.