On Pocket PC fans' anti-Palm smear

Colin Dunstan · 12-08-2005, 04:25 AM

In a PalmAddicts rant headlined All future Treos to run Windows Mobile? Not so fast.., Jimmie expresses his discontent with Pocket PC fans who continue to proclaim the death of Palm OS.

I am on a rant, I just don't understand why fan sites from the "other side" almost enjoy writing the death of Palm OS, on what now seems to be a monthly basis. They should be happy that they can finally experience a Treo.

I agree with his sentiment about the pervasive anti-Palm smear which is quite apparent in many Pocket PC communities. Listen to me, whose primary handheld device is a Pocket PC: Palm stated repeatedly that they do not plan to abandon Palm OS - and the introduction of the Treo 700w is not going to change their plans.

Laurens · 12-08-2005, 04:29 AM

To be honest, you also see anti-PPC sentiments in the PalmOS camp.

Jaapjan · 12-08-2005, 04:34 AM

Not to mention that many of those anti-palm sentiments are not specifically based on the treo-to-pocketpc but on the seeming presence the pocket pcs form on the net. In my direct surrounds there are less and less and less palms nor do I see as much innovation there.

surur · 12-08-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Dunstan

Listen to me, whose primary handheld device is a Pocket PC: Palm stated repeatedly that they do not plan to abandon Palm OS - and the introduction of the Treo 700w is not going to change their plans.

And you believe them? How many really unexpected things have you observed recently? Like Intel Mac's, and PowerPC X-boxes, Access PSRC, or Treo 700w?

Were you really amazed when a Palm VP recently said (probably inaccurately) that Palm was going to release a Linux smartphone despite clearly denying this, or when Jimmie's Palm Symbian rumours went around? A company is only responsible to its shareholders, and if they feel that some action will grow their profit and is legal, they are legally obliged to do it, or else the shareholders can chuck the board. Just look at some of the statements in the Sagio document.

In short, the only reason Palm is not doing a WM Tungsten is because they are abandoning handhelds in any case. What will people say when a WM Palm handheld gets leaked in 2007. Will the disbelief and shock be similar to the WM Treo drama? All Palm will have to say is "Public demand has convinced us to bring the Palm experience to WM handhelds, which will grow our market".

Public companies have no loyalty to their customers, only their bottom line. Dont be fooled twice.

Surur

Alexander Turcic · 12-08-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surur

Public companies have no loyalty to their customers, only their bottom line. Dont be fooled twice.

As much as I hate to say it, you are probably right. If Palm saw a window of opportunity by joining the Pocket PC camp, they would probably do so without a blink of the eye.

Colin Dunstan · 12-08-2005, 11:03 AM

True, Palm users aren't always fair either and love to point out the shortcomings of Pocket PCs... but don't you agree that ever since the first details of the Treo 700w leaked out (thanks to Engadget), people just love to diss Palm whenever there's an opportunity? Sure Palm management did some mistakes, most importantly let the information leak out before the actual announcement, but you have to give them that: they are trying hard to get back into the game. And if a partnership with Microsoft helps them achieving their goal, so be it. Looking at the generally positive reviews of the Nokia 770, I have reason to believe that Linux for mobile devices is the way to go in future, and in this lies my hope with PalmSource/Access who is working hard on the next Palm OS generation.

Laurens · 12-08-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Dunstan

True, Palm users aren't always fair either and love to point out the shortcomings of Pocket PCs... but don't you agree that ever since the first details of the Treo 700w leaked out (thanks to Engadget), people just love to diss Palm whenever there's an opportunity?

I haven't kept a tab on the mobile community for quite a while, so I may have missed that. (MobileRead is the only site I visit these days.) Surely the tables will be turned when new PalmOS phones come out next year, even if they still run OS5. If Palm Inc. can succeed in bringing smartphones to the masses with their "Lowrider" Treo, that will give a boost to the Palm OS userbase. Not everyone wants or needs the most powerful model. In fact, most people will settle for something that is "good enough".

Quote:

Looking at the generally positive reviews of the Nokia 770, I have reason to believe that Linux for mobile devices is the way to go in future, and in this lies my hope with PalmSource/Access who is working hard on the next Palm OS generation.

Yes, but the Nokia proves that companies other than PalmSource can develop decent Linux handhelds as well. Furthermore, hardware companies (like Nokia) want to drive the cost of software to 0, which is at odds with the goals of a software-only company like PalmSource. I'm still not convinced they can make enough money selling their customized Linux OS.

pda247 · 12-08-2005, 01:20 PM

I think this works both ways. My experience with PDA247 is some very emotional ill feeling towards PPCs from Palm fans and that it is not so bad the other way around although they are starting to gloat a bit.

When I moved to a PPC I received a couple of very nasty emails from visitors telling me they would never visit the site again and some other choice words. When I moved back to Palm one of them told me he would visit again- told him not to bother...

Bob Russell · 12-08-2005, 01:57 PM

In general, I think I see PPC taking more liberties against Palm users and more freely taking shots that may not reflect the facts.

But definitely the more emotional comments/shots come from the PalmOS side against PPC. That's because PalmOS is the underdog and it's in a more precarious position with a future that is not very certain.... in large part because of the dominance of Microsoft, so it becomes more emtional for PalmOS with more at stake.

On the PPC side it's a matter of image and pride. On the PalmOS side it's more a matter of survival.

Jimmie Geddes · 12-08-2005, 02:28 PM

I just get tired of seeing the what was once yearly, now monthly "death of Palm OS" form pocket pc fan sites.

Jimmie Geddes · 12-08-2005, 02:34 PM

It's like Mac vs Windows
This is Palm vs Windows Mobile
BobR you're right about the underdogs (Palm users), it just seems the Palm "obituaries" are coming more and more frequently.

Laurens · 12-08-2005, 03:27 PM

It's quite simple really: sites need to generate traffic, and the best way to do that is to come up with sensationalist, tabloid-style headlines like "Death of PalmOS".

spinosum · 12-08-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurens

To be honest, you also see anti-PPC sentiments in the PalmOS camp.

True. People who change from Palm to PPC are labelled as "moving into the Darkside"...

cbarnett · 12-08-2005, 11:15 PM

I joined the dark side years ago (and have called it that for that long!)

rmeister0 · 12-09-2005, 01:31 AM

I wonder about the idea of Palm abandoning handhelds (pdas).

I don't know which numbers to believe - that pda sales are still in decline or that they are on the rise. I hear both from one month to the next.

What is telling to me is that the Best Buy stores in my area don't have pdas of any variety anymore. CompUSA still has them behind the camera counter, but all the display models are gone. Our one Microcenter has three or four very beat up display models, and that's about it.

The perception of Palm dying out comes from a clear lack of strategy. What are they doing - Windows Mobile, Palm OS 5, or a linux derivative? That's one more operating platform for mobile markets than Microsoft currently supports (Windows Mobile vs. Windows CE.NET; the latter, frankly, is so incredibly niche I'm surprised they're still pursuing it).

I think, long term, the assimilation of Handspring and Sony pulling out of the US market has contributed to a doom and gloom perception of Palm's future.

Microsoft's strategy and platform offering is clear, even if it is buggy in the current iteration. You still know what you're getting now and for the next few years. Palm is, to some degree, an unknown quantity.

I recently bought a Z22, simply because I needed a new PDA on the cheap and I can't find any Windows Mobile device for less than $300. I can use it on a Mac without third party software.

If sub-notebooks like the Toshiba Lifebook gain any steam, pdas may be even more marginalized in favor of smartphone devices, and the industry seems to be rushing to integrate their stuff into a cell phone factor faster than you can say "lemming". Everybody wants to be RIM these days (except for the lawsuits, natch).

12-08-2005, 04:25 AM	#1
Colin Dunstan Is papyrophobic! Posts: 1,926 Karma: 1009999 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Device: Dell Axim	On Pocket PC fans' anti-Palm smear In a PalmAddicts rant headlined All future Treos to run Windows Mobile? Not so fast.., Jimmie expresses his discontent with Pocket PC fans who continue to proclaim the death of Palm OS. I am on a rant, I just don't understand why fan sites from the "other side" almost enjoy writing the death of Palm OS, on what now seems to be a monthly basis. They should be happy that they can finally experience a Treo. I agree with his sentiment about the pervasive anti-Palm smear which is quite apparent in many Pocket PC communities. Listen to me, whose primary handheld device is a Pocket PC: Palm stated repeatedly that they do not plan to abandon Palm OS - and the introduction of the Treo 700w is not going to change their plans.

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12-08-2005, 04:29 AM	#2
Laurens Jah Blessed Posts: 1,295 Karma: 1373 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Netherlands Device: iPod Touch	To be honest, you also see anti-PPC sentiments in the PalmOS camp.

12-08-2005, 04:34 AM	#3
Jaapjan Avid reader Posts: 262 Karma: 132 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Netherlands Device: HTC Touch Diamond, iLiad Book Edition	Not to mention that many of those anti-palm sentiments are not specifically based on the treo-to-pocketpc but on the seeming presence the pocket pcs form on the net. In my direct surrounds there are less and less and less palms nor do I see as much innovation there.

12-08-2005, 11:03 AM	#6
Colin Dunstan Is papyrophobic! Posts: 1,926 Karma: 1009999 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Device: Dell Axim	True, Palm users aren't always fair either and love to point out the shortcomings of Pocket PCs... but don't you agree that ever since the first details of the Treo 700w leaked out (thanks to Engadget), people just love to diss Palm whenever there's an opportunity? Sure Palm management did some mistakes, most importantly let the information leak out before the actual announcement, but you have to give them that: they are trying hard to get back into the game. And if a partnership with Microsoft helps them achieving their goal, so be it. Looking at the generally positive reviews of the Nokia 770, I have reason to believe that Linux for mobile devices is the way to go in future, and in this lies my hope with PalmSource/Access who is working hard on the next Palm OS generation.

12-08-2005, 01:20 PM	#8
pda247 Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005	I think this works both ways. My experience with PDA247 is some very emotional ill feeling towards PPCs from Palm fans and that it is not so bad the other way around although they are starting to gloat a bit. When I moved to a PPC I received a couple of very nasty emails from visitors telling me they would never visit the site again and some other choice words. When I moved back to Palm one of them told me he would visit again- told him not to bother...

12-08-2005, 01:57 PM	#9
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	In general, I think I see PPC taking more liberties against Palm users and more freely taking shots that may not reflect the facts. But definitely the more emotional comments/shots come from the PalmOS side against PPC. That's because PalmOS is the underdog and it's in a more precarious position with a future that is not very certain.... in large part because of the dominance of Microsoft, so it becomes more emtional for PalmOS with more at stake. On the PPC side it's a matter of image and pride. On the PalmOS side it's more a matter of survival.

12-08-2005, 02:28 PM	#10
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	I just get tired of seeing the what was once yearly, now monthly "death of Palm OS" form pocket pc fan sites.

12-08-2005, 02:34 PM	#11
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	It's like Mac vs Windows This is Palm vs Windows Mobile BobR you're right about the underdogs (Palm users), it just seems the Palm "obituaries" are coming more and more frequently.

12-08-2005, 03:27 PM	#12
Laurens Jah Blessed Posts: 1,295 Karma: 1373 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Netherlands Device: iPod Touch	It's quite simple really: sites need to generate traffic, and the best way to do that is to come up with sensationalist, tabloid-style headlines like "Death of PalmOS".

12-08-2005, 11:15 PM	#14
cbarnett MR prodigal son Posts: 1,085 Karma: 1083739 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O	I joined the dark side years ago (and have called it that for that long!)

12-09-2005, 01:31 AM	#15
rmeister0 Addict Posts: 270 Karma: 298 Join Date: Mar 2005	I wonder about the idea of Palm abandoning handhelds (pdas). I don't know which numbers to believe - that pda sales are still in decline or that they are on the rise. I hear both from one month to the next. What is telling to me is that the Best Buy stores in my area don't have pdas of any variety anymore. CompUSA still has them behind the camera counter, but all the display models are gone. Our one Microcenter has three or four very beat up display models, and that's about it. The perception of Palm dying out comes from a clear lack of strategy. What are they doing - Windows Mobile, Palm OS 5, or a linux derivative? That's one more operating platform for mobile markets than Microsoft currently supports (Windows Mobile vs. Windows CE.NET; the latter, frankly, is so incredibly niche I'm surprised they're still pursuing it). I think, long term, the assimilation of Handspring and Sony pulling out of the US market has contributed to a doom and gloom perception of Palm's future. Microsoft's strategy and platform offering is clear, even if it is buggy in the current iteration. You still know what you're getting now and for the next few years. Palm is, to some degree, an unknown quantity. I recently bought a Z22, simply because I needed a new PDA on the cheap and I can't find any Windows Mobile device for less than $300. I can use it on a Mac without third party software. If sub-notebooks like the Toshiba Lifebook gain any steam, pdas may be even more marginalized in favor of smartphone devices, and the industry seems to be rushing to integrate their stuff into a cell phone factor faster than you can say "lemming". Everybody wants to be RIM these days (except for the lawsuits, natch).

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