Is this a pirate site?

[Nakor]

One of the major factors was also the huge number of people looking for their music online. Whether or not piracy is a concern with eBooks, the fact is the pbook readers outnumber those reading digitally by well over ten to one. Compare to the music industry where everyone and their dog was getting their music online, even the computer illiterate.

[TGS]

One of the interesting things about this whole thread, and indeed the whole debate, is how the word "pirate" has got into the language in this context. The other contemporary use of the word is of course in the context of those armed gangs who ply the Gulf of Aden and take over cargo ships and other vessels by armed force, and then demand a ransom. This is much closer to the original usage.

Do we really think that unauthorized downloading and distribution of digital material is anything like commandeering a ship by the use of force? If we don't why do we insist on using the same word for the activity? It makes me wonder what rhetorical purpose it serves, and whose interest that rhetorical purpose promotes. It is of course a metaphor, but we all seem to be buying into this metaphor, and the metaphors we choose matter.

[kennyc]

SpiderMatt I just mean the industry as a whole moved from vinyl to CD before any of the music piracy stuff started.

(sure there was cassette copying etc, but not like what was to come)

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Nakor

One of the major factors was also the huge number of people looking for their music online. Whether or not piracy is a concern with eBooks, the fact is the pbook readers outnumber those reading digitally by well over ten to one. Compare to the music industry where everyone and their dog was getting their music online, even the computer illiterate.

Exactly and that's what I mean by the industry moved to digital -- the product was available primarily as digital media. That has not happened with books yet and may never happen.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by TGS

One of the interesting things about this whole thread, and indeed the whole debate, is how the word "pirate" has got into the language in this context. The other contemporary use of the word is of course in the context of those armed gangs who ply the Gulf of Aden and take over cargo ships and other vessels by armed force, and then demand a ransom. This is much closer to the original usage.

Do we really think that unauthorized downloading and distribution of digital material is anything like commandeering a ship by the use of force? If we don't why do we insist on using the same word for the activity? It makes me wonder what rhetorical purpose it serves, and whose interest that rhetorical purpose promotes. It is of course a metaphor, but we all seem to be buying into this metaphor, and the metaphors we choose matter.

That's why we need to call it what it is: THEFT!

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Exactly and that's what I mean by the industry moved to digital -- the product was available primarily as digital media. That has not happened with books yet and may never happen.

I suppose it's possible that books won't move to be available "primarily as digital media", but do you really think it at all likely that this won't happen? Assuming that civilisation doesn't end etc., I'd put very high odds on this happening within, say, 50 years.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by TGS

One of the interesting things about this whole thread, and indeed the whole debate, is how the word "pirate" has got into the language in this context. The other contemporary use of the word is of course in the context of those armed gangs who ply the Gulf of Aden and take over cargo ships and other vessels by armed force, and then demand a ransom. This is much closer to the original usage.

Do we really think that unauthorized downloading and distribution of digital material is anything like commandeering a ship by the use of force? If we don't why do we insist on using the same word for the activity? It makes me wonder what rhetorical purpose it serves, and whose interest that rhetorical purpose promotes. It is of course a metaphor, but we all seem to be buying into this metaphor, and the metaphors we choose matter.

To me any term that clearly indicates that such behavior is clearly wrong and that there should be absolutely no excuses is fine. Theft does seem to fit the bill most closely. Even though a right is being stolen, not a physical item.

So I am open to new suggestions, just no whitewashes.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I suppose it's possible that books won't move to be available "primarily as digital media", but do you really think it at all likely that this won't happen? Assuming that civilisation doesn't end etc., I'd put very high odds on this happening within, say, 50 years.

50 years? I think it will happen much, much faster. In 10-15 years, I would say, the situation will be reversed. 90% digital, 10% print.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I suppose it's possible that books won't move to be available "primarily as digital media", but do you really think it at all likely that this won't happen? Assuming that civilisation doesn't end etc., I'd put very high odds on this happening within, say, 50 years.

I think there will always be paper books in one form or another. We may move to a primarily digital distribution of book/text but I think it's happening way slower than than the digital music shift.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's why we need to call it what it is: THEFT!

What color is the sky in your world?

[TGS]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's why we need to call it what it is: THEFT!

In many ways I agree with you - if theft is what it is, then that's what it should be called. But I guess many would disagree that it is theft.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's why we need to call it what it is: THEFT!

Yes.

I stole "Under the Dome", and mr. King doesn't even know it.
When they stole my car, I was well aware of the fact just an hour later, and I was at the PD shortly after [and I got my car back in a month...].
But it's been 6 months from my "theft", and nor S.King, nor his publisher know nothing about it!

How can they been so dumb?
They're the dumbest people I've ever seen! They've been deprieved of a valuable asset, and they even don't know it!
They deserve to be parted from their books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






[Disclaimer: I'm just making a point, here. I don't really believe Stephen King is a dumb person; actually, I believe he's one of the best storytellers in the USA. And I paid way more than a fair amount to read Under the Dome, which is a very good novel. I enjoyed it, and I recommend it to every thriller fan around]

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Format C:

Yes.

I stole "Under the Dome", and mr. King doesn't even know it.
When they stole my car, I was well aware of the fact just an hour later, and I was at the PD shortly after [and I got my car back in a month...].
But it's been 6 months from my "theft", and nor S.King, nor his publisher know nothing about it!

How can they been so dumb?
They're the dumbest people I've ever seen! They've been deprieved of a valuable asset, and they even don't know it!
They deserve to be parted from their books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






[Disclaimer: I'm just making a point, here. I don't really believe Stephen King is a dumb person; actually, I believe he's one of the best storytellers in the USA. And I paid way more than a fair amount to read Under the Dome, which is a very good novel. I enjoyed it, and I recommend it to every thriller fan around]

Hey, I took your car for a spin and returned it before you noticed! And I took that idea you had at work and said it was mine. Since I created a second copy of your idea and you still have that original idea in your head, so no harm done!

I have another one for you: I took that file showing the details of that great invention of yours and made a copy. No problem, you still have your copy -- no theft, right?

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Hey, I took your car for a spin and returned it before you noticed! And I took that idea you had at work and said it was mine. Since I created a second copy of your idea and you still have that original idea in your head, so no harm done!

I never said I wrote "Under the Dome".

But, if I did, would you rather call it "theft" or "plagiarism"?

And again, I'm sorry for my bad English. I swear I didn't know that "it's a felony different from theft" actually means "no harm is done". Now I know it, thank you.



Even for your car trip there are other names for what you did. In my country it sounds like "unauthorized temporary possession", which is not theft, and is given, when proved, different penalties...

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Hey, I took your car for a spin and returned it before you noticed! And I took that idea you had at work and said it was mine. Well, you still have that idea in your head, so no harm done!

The first is illegal of course but maybe you should take the time to consider why. Notice or not someone would be deprived of the use of their car, there would be increased wear and tear and hey did you bother to refill the gas tank? Now on the other hand if you built an exact copy of the car and drove off who is harmed? But since you like to mislabel things I propose we say you raped the car you entered and used it without consent so you'd be a rapist.

The second I'm not aware of being unlawful it just makes you... I could use some rude words but why bother, you'd be just like most other people working in offices these days.