Is this a pirate site?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's the same as asking if there's any ethical difference between buying a bottle of Scotch in a supermarket, on which all the appropriate taxes have been paid, and buying the same brand at half the price from "a man in a pub", which has been smuggled from France, and on which UK taxes have not been paid. The end result is the same - you have a bottle of whisky - but one has been obtained legitimately and the other from an illicit source.

Actually, that would be more like buying an ebook from an America only ebook store when you are not in America. The original Whiskey producer would have been paid, the shopkeeper in France would have been paid, and French taxes would have bee paid.

[Ilkyway]

about the germen copyright-low: it as been altered in the past: beforehand one could try and tell he did not know the source was illegal and he might have had a chance and got away with it. But now the law reasons, the user has responsebilaty as well. If an offer seems to be quastionable, than he has to make shure, what he is downloading is legal.
Don't you think that is fair? All over the world bright people are telling the lie: but I did not know that... Well, if you are using the internet and downloading content you should inform yourself.
And about ethical or not: there are not several different ways of right. If what you do does harm to someone that is wrong. The only question is, how much effort you put into finding out if your doing is harming someone. With the internet the "others" are so convienient far away and unknown to you. So hurting them is easy to overlook. And violations of copyright does hurt people. Otherwise there won't be DRM and this discussion.
But as it is said above: other solutions have to be found. Putting nearly everybody with a computer with one leg into jail is not a god solution. Shrugging the shoulders and thinking, no one will find out about my files on my computer isn't either.

But I woun't convince anybody here, there you are right. Persons who think along the same line like myselve will agree and the others will shake there heads.
But don't stop thinking about it, maybe someone finds a way out of this problem.

Ilkyway, who has said enough to this topic and wishes everyone a good time discussing it further.

[frank.w]

Interesting commentary on the subject from the Guardian:

Why aren't ebooks taking off? Not enough pirates

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...d-books-piracy

Frank

[kennyc]

I'm not sure exactly what that article is saying Frank, but I think the issues are different for book publishing than for music primarily because in the music revolution the industry moved to digital well before the pirate controversy began. That is not the case with the publishing industry and therein lies the difference IMO.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

With the act of stealing a physical good, there will be someone who has lost something of value.

The term is "deprivation", yes.

It's an intrinsic part of most country's theft laws - to the degree in the UK there's a different crime for temporarily stealing a car (TWOC, Taken Without Consent).

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Ilkyway

But now the law reasons, the user has responsebilaty as well. If an offer seems to be quastionable, than he has to make shure, what he is downloading is legal.
Don't you think that is fair?

So every time you click on a link on the internet you have to research the copyright status first? How are you even supposed to find out what the copyright status is? Do you have a publicly available database that shows every host that has been authorized by every copyright holder? How do you even know if something falls under copyright (not to mention, how do you know this before you even see the content)?

[Logseman]

Originally Posted by frank.w

Interesting commentary on the subject from the Guardian:

Why aren't ebooks taking off? Not enough pirates

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...d-books-piracy

Frank

I read in a paper magazine, a long time ago, that the Playstation One (one of the most easily and widespread pirated hardware ever) sold, in total, more devices than games. Go figure

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Logseman

I read in a paper magazine, a long time ago, that the Playstation One (one of the most easily and widespread pirated hardware ever) sold, in total, more devices than games. Go figure

There are a lot of places that buy PS3s because they're relatively cheap/powerful computers, not because they want to play games on them. Some people create inexpensive server clusters out of them. Not sure if the same was true of the older consoles.

[Logseman]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

There are a lot of places that buy PS3s because they're relatively cheap/powerful computers, not because they want to play games on them. Some people create inexpensive server clusters out of them. Not sure if the same was true of the older consoles.

I don't think so. If I recall correctly, the PS1 processor was pretty worse than the PC ones of the time, which were strongly rising. By the time the PS2 was announced, the usual computer was around a Pentium II, much stronger than a PS1. It's not surprising that emulating it is fairly easy as well, unlike the Sega Saturn or Dreamcast *sigh*

[Ilkyway]

@ Shaggy: sorry, I was under the impression, that we are talking about downloading ebooks or mp3s. My posts where regarding to that. Not to clicking on a link in the internet. Did I tap on your toe? If so I am really sorry.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Ilkyway

@ Shaggy: sorry, I was under the impression, that we are talking about downloading ebooks or mp3s. My posts where regarding to that. Not to clicking on a link in the internet.

Clicking on a link on the internet is the same thing as downloading an eBook/MP3/etc. Anytime you click on a link you're potentially downloading copyrighted material.

Did I tap on your toe? If so I am really sorry.

I'm not reacting to what you said, I'm reacting to what the German law says. Didn't mean to give the impression that I was arguing with you. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that's what their law says, but such a law is pretty ridiculous and makes just about everyone guilty.

[Ilkyway]

You are right, this law is an overkill right now. But some of the file-sharerers (can I say that?) overdid it a lot. If both sides are done with overreacting a solution will be found, I am quite sure about that.
Looking forward to other discusions, but this one seems to have covered nearly everything by now?!
Have a nice day, Ilkyway

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Ilkyway

If both sides are done with overreacting a solution will be found

I agree, but I also doubt that is ever going to happen.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Clicking on a link on the internet is the same thing as downloading an eBook/MP3/etc. Anytime you click on a link you're potentially downloading copyrighted material.

There really isn't anything potential about it since things are copyrighted on creation including the little bit of information Project Gutenberg includes in their text every link you click will contain copyrighted materials. This post is copyrighted material, I don't even need to send anything to the library of congress.

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I'm not sure exactly what that article is saying Frank, but I think the issues are different for book publishing than for music primarily because in the music revolution the industry moved to digital well before the pirate controversy began. That is not the case with the publishing industry and therein lies the difference IMO.

I think digital literature will have to be approached differently than digital music for sure but what do you mean the music "industry moved to digital well before the pirate controversy began"? Maybe in as much as CDs were digital but in terms of selling digital music, there was no kind of healthy online marketplace for music until after piracy became widespread. While piracy of copyrighted content is widespread in general now, it's not as big of an issue for publishing companies yet, probably due in part to the labor involved in scanning and OCRing books. I have no doubt that this will change as ebooks become more predominant, which will likely happen as more people catch on to the ease of cracking DRM. In terms of selling digital content online, I don't know that there was a time when piracy wasn't a real threat.