03-01-2009, 04:15 PM | #91 |
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Sarcasm aside, I suspect the library buys the book and uses overdrive for the distribution. I saw the monthly cost somewhere. I order paper books online the very same way. Those have to be manually delivered to my local library.
The library is not required to buy any more books because kindle owners can now check out library books. I can only checkout a book for a period of time, and then it is returned (I don't even have the option of keeping it out longer, via renewal or fine). I cannot check out a book if someone else has it checked out. Actually, the library has to submit useage statistics to the village board when asking for money, and my reuse of the library is going to look good on their statistics. And since they are already paying for overdrive, it isn't costing them a thing. Who exactly is the victim in this scenario? Again, if I sold the books, or created my own lending library, clearly the author can complain. But if my using the library causes the usership to go up, and the library to get more funding, which they will use buying more books, I just don't see who is harmed. Now, there are some victimless crimes that are crimes because they involve behavior that we want to discourage. What behavior are we discouraging with me borrowing library books? And it is borrowing, even if the DRM is stripped. I do not keep the books. I am sitting at home, reading, instead of causing trouble out on the streets. What is not to love? |
03-01-2009, 04:19 PM | #92 | |
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If you can't read it in the time frame you have it checked out, don't check it out. Check it out when you are going to read it, then delete it if you are done. The same thing that would happen if you kept the DRM on it intact. BOb |
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03-01-2009, 04:25 PM | #93 |
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Agreed. I am being greedy, because I am afraid that at some point I will not be able to borrow library books anymore, just like before this week.
However, I am still only reading the book once, and you are only reading the book once. Isn't that just the kind of time-shifting that VCRs were all about? And I am not fast-forwarding through any commercials in my library books. |
03-01-2009, 04:30 PM | #94 |
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I don't think libraries have rules against borrowing a book and lending it to a friend (I do this all the time with paper books). It shouldn't matter if the friend is across the other side of the world as long as the book gets returned on time.
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03-01-2009, 06:32 PM | #95 | |
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This is precisely the legal right that carried the Betamax case: the right to copy a TV show to watch it at a different time from broadcast. That was deemed to be a non-infringing use of a copy-making device, and is the key reason VCRs were declared legal, and the foundation of modern "copy for personal use" rights. The library can only provide so many "broadcasts" of an ebook at a time. If individuals can time-shift those "broadcasts" to read them later, that's no more copyright infringing than using a VCR to watch all your favorite TV shows on Sunday, rather than 1 hour every night. It can become an illegal copy if given away... but maybe not. Giving away taped TV shows to a friend or family member has never been prosecuted; it's only when money changes hands that the main distributors start to become concerned. (Non-commercial copyright infringement, on its own, is not a crime in the US, but a tort--the wronged party must file suit to insist they've been wronged; if they don't, no harm is assumed. Like breach of contract, if nobody's complaining, it's assumed that no damage has been done.) (IANAL) Removing the DRM, and keeping a copy, is no different from taping a TV show and keeping the tape. That the library, like the TV network, only provides the content for a limited time doesn't mean end users are required to only view the content in that time. |
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03-01-2009, 06:49 PM | #96 |
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This is not correct. You could not xerox a library book and read it later. When you xerox a library book, you are creating a non legitimate copy of a book. It is not what the Betamax time shifting issue was about at all.
Time shifting was taking a legitimate copy of an episode and watching at a later time, not taking a copy to which you had no ownership of and using it at a later time. Further, it wasn't that time shifting was per se fair use, but that in the circumstances, it was fair use considering all the elements of fair use. Do you think it would be okay to keep the copy of the library book for extended period of time? The library system rests on non possessory rights of borrowers. |
03-01-2009, 09:26 PM | #97 |
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Do you think I am being punished?
I cannot download the free book at Harlequin. I tried the Adobe PDF, and the mobi. The other mobis in my account still download fine, but I believe that the reason I can't download this book is because I am downloading library books to my kindle.
I guess piracy gives you bad karma. |
03-01-2009, 10:03 PM | #98 | |
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There's definitely something wrong with the download. I was trying to help someone earlier and none of the three formats seem to want to download. |
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03-02-2009, 01:30 PM | #99 |
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03-02-2009, 01:44 PM | #100 | |
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(Oh, BTW the downloads seem to work now). Last edited by AnemicOak; 03-02-2009 at 01:50 PM. |
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03-02-2009, 01:58 PM | #101 | |
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03-02-2009, 02:46 PM | #102 | |
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Ok, so here's my new ethical dilemma: Let's say each book is an individual purchase, like pbooks, and can be downloaded as many times as possible provided that they only have the allowable number of copies out at once. With PDF books, I have the ability to turn things back in early allowing more downloads over time than Mobipocket. The most truthful thing I can do is download the book, read it and return it when done. If I have stripped the DRM, I don't have to retain the license to read it. Even if I took a week to read it, I could turn it back in right away and free it up for someone else. However this could cause the library to inadvertently violate its license for the book but at the same time it might increase usage of the ebook service allowing them to focus more on the enterprise, get more funding and purchase even more books. Last edited by Alisa; 03-02-2009 at 08:01 PM. |
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03-02-2009, 02:54 PM | #103 |
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Its legal to xerox a book (at least on Germany). If you buy a xerox machine a part of the price is for the book industry.
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03-02-2009, 07:07 PM | #104 |
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This is just too confusing. Uncle
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03-02-2009, 08:48 PM | #105 |
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