Furious with Sony Service

[PHugger]

Harry's doctor analogy somehow falls a bit short.
I think a bit closer to my situation would be something like this -

My knee really hurts me. I'm not sure how it was injured, but I do know it hurts. My insurance company agrees that my knee is injured, but they insist that my injury must have been the result of some extreme sports activity and that this isn't covered by my policy. I know this isn't the case, but have no means to prove otherwise.

I'm sure this won't be grasped by Harry, but he'll be able to restated his position several more times for us. Some people are just like that. They can't accept a difference of opinion and feel that repetition will make their position more palatable or that it will eventually wear the opposition down. I feel for those poor folks who have somehow become his customers. If you treat your customers poorly enough they just go away right?



PCH

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Barcey

I've also worked for many years in the past servicing computers including warranty repairs and believe me I'm used to customers lying to me. Most just don't tell you the whole story because it's not in their best interest to. I don't automatically assume that someone posting in this forum is lying though. I don't see what possible benefit it is to them to lie to us, we're not making the decision on the warranty claim.

I am absolutely not suggesting for an instant that anyone is deliberately lying. Simply that it's all too easy to completely inadvertently apply pressure or a twisting force to the screen which can fracture it.

As you very rightly say, we are not making the decision on the warranty claim. We all have to trust the expert opinion of those who are.

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by PHugger

Harry's doctor analogy somehow falls a bit short.
I think a bit closer to my situation would be something like this -

My knee really hurts me. I'm not sure how it was injured, but I do know it hurts. My insurance company agrees that my knee is injured, but they insist that my injury must have been the result of some extreme sports activity and that this isn't covered by my policy. I know this isn't the case, but have no means to prove otherwise.

Bad analogy, and not close to your situation. In your knee analogy, you know that you didn't play an extreme sport. With the Reader, you don't know whether it was subjected to an accidental force (banged around in a bag, twisted a bit, bumping it with something, etc.).

I'm neutral of course, but I lean towards Harry's assessment of the situation. There's a big difference between a manufacturing defect and breakage of a relatively delicate device through some inadvertent force.

[Ervserver]

Lots of times, in warranty or not, its all in who you talk to and how you talk to them. I know customer service can be frustrating but I've gotten positive results by keeping my story consistent, kiss butt, and call and talk to as many different individuals as you possibly can at all hours. That one time you will get the right person.

[hokie]

The analogies are interesting here...especially since UK and US medicine are vastly different, and are seen through different cultural lenses. Personally, I like the knee/insurance one. But it's very difficult to get a second opinion on an eReader...thus the scepticism.

As far as the reader goes, there's a business term called "goodwill" that Sony should really think about here. It's probably worth more than the $250 they'll save to fix the reader, especially when they are facing the 800-lb Amazon Gorilla for market share.

Combine that with the fact that the bad "press" they get here on one of the premier eBook sites, and if this thread turns, say 2-4 customers to Amazon, they've lost. Of course, nobody has repair/return statistics for the eReader, but you can see my point. It's probably better for Sony to turn this into good PR and write off the cost of the return.

If the product is so bad that returns are being abused, they probably should consider making a better product anyway.

[mrkai]

Actually there are a couple...and I have seen both.

1. The device was damaged in shipping by mishandling. Apple as a policy deals with this by sending customers shipping boxes they design for reasonable safety in transport. I don't know if Sony did this, but if PCH packed the thing in not the best way, it could have been damaged.

2. The tech doing the service could have broken it, and well, is not honest.

I have seen this happen with bench techs. In fact, I was personally responsible for getting one at a company I worked at dismissed for this. They were in a rush and inadvertently replaced a top case assembly wrong that shorted the main logic board when the machine was plugged in.

What he told the *customer* was that it looked like the machine was damaged via a power surge and was not covered by the warranty.

Suffice it to say that I reported this and he was fired.

In both of these cases, what PCH put in the box could have easily not had a cracked screen.

Either way, a line tech is not going to give him satisfaction, and if he doesn't have any photos or video of the state of the product when he packed it*** then he's going to have to come up with another solution.

PCH, if you end up having to replace your reader or get another one, I suggest some other brand. The Cybook seems to really be the most versatile in the price range; the Kindle, if the Whispernet is attractive to you and buying lots of ebooks is your thing, might be a better bet.

But if Sony isn't going to satisfy you, I personally think it would be foolish to throw another $279 at them. I'd take the hit and call it "one to grow on" and move on.

-K

***Because of my own personal experience, I actually photograph what I ship to people (RMA's, eBay auctions) and video the actual final packing/sealing/applying of the shipping label over the tape.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I am absolutely not suggesting for an instant that anyone is deliberately lying. Simply that it's all too easy to completely inadvertently apply pressure or a twisting force to the screen which can fracture it.

As you very rightly say, we are not making the decision on the warranty claim. We all have to trust the expert opinion of those who are.

Thanks for clarifying, I was hoping you weren't saying that. I miss interpreted your post.

A real world example of where I am coming from though. Years ago we had a customer bring in their laptop for a warranty claim because the plasma screen wasn't working. I had been working on this customer's computers for years and knew how well he took care of them. The technician who worked on the laptop discovered there was a crack in the glass of the plasma screen leading from the screw. It had obviously grown over time and finally broke the surface mount circuits. He wanted to reject the warranty but I decided to let it go through because it could have been that it was broken when the screw was tightened and not noticed.

When the replacement plasma screen arrived the technician installed it and when he was tightening the case screws there was a loud crack. The screen had cracked again from the very same place only this time right across. We discovered that the case where the screen was mounted was slightly warped out of alignment. When you tightened the screen to the warped case it was fine but when you put the other half of the shell on it aligned it properly and put pressure on the screen causing it to break. We had to do a warranty claim on both the case and the screen.

I know this is an unusual example but it did happen. In those days I was allowed discretion on what was allowed as a warranty claim and the service manager and owner supported me. That is non existent today though because it results in inconsistent warranty claims. Standard policies are set and discretion is removed from the service technicians.

In the above example which expert opinion should the customer have accepted? We were both certified service technicians.

[PHugger]

Originally Posted by DrMoze

Bad analogy, and not close to your situation. In your knee analogy, you know that you didn't play an extreme sport. With the Reader, you don't know whether it was subjected to an accidental force (banged around in a bag, twisted a bit, bumping it with something, etc.).

Of course you are correct. I have no idea what happened to it. Maybe aliens sneaked into my house while I was sleeping and subjected it to accidental forces by banging it around in a bag, twisting it, and bumping it on stuff. How could I be so foolish to assume that it could possibly have been caused by a manufacturing defect when there are so many other, more creative possibilities. Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?



PCH

[DrMoze]

Originally Posted by PHugger

Of course you are correct. I have no idea what happened to it. Maybe aliens sneaked into my house while I was sleeping and subjected it to accidental forces by banging it around in a bag, twisting it, and bumping it on stuff. How could I be so foolish to assume that it could possibly have been caused by a manufacturing defect when there are so many other, more creative possibilities. Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?

Nice, reasonable response there. And yes, I am quite familiar with the concept of Occam's Razor. Applied to this situation, it would lead to the conclusion that the Reader was subjected to a simple, common bump or other force (it being a portable device) causing it to break, and was not broken because of a mysterious 'manufacturing defect.'

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I am absolutely not suggesting for an instant that anyone is deliberately lying.

But you are making a mistake by not considering that Sony techs might lie.

I am listening for many years to a BBC Three Counties The Stephen Rhodes Consumer Programme.

You would not believe how many of allegedly professional car dealers, PC techs, plumbers, kitchen retailers etc., actually lie.

I suspect that Sony techs could get a word from upstairs that whenever a reader with this type of failure shows up, they should say it was broken from inside. Maybe with a slight tap of a screwdriver to make sure. No one can prove it. Customer will pay.

There is clearly something wrong. With a new reader the amount of "broken" screen has rised dramatically. Now I am afraid to buy one. It is a book reader, not a glass house. It is supposed to be durable enough for traveling. Maybe because they made is thinner, I don't know. Something is wrong, I believe.

[JSWolf]

What I want to know, is it possible for the part that broke to actually break without being broken? In other words, can it break on it's own without excessive force applied to it? Could this part have broken without it being the user's fault?

[NatCh]

I think we had one reported incident where one apparently did exactly that, JSWolf -- it was a genuine manufacturing defect in the display's backplane (Sony finally discovered that this was actually the case). If this is the same situation, it would be number 2 that we know about.

[crusader666]

Had to call Sony Style the other day regarding my 505 Reader because after reading all the "horror stories" on this board, I began to feel nervous that I had not purchased the "accidental warranty." Ends up my 30 days is up, and I can't purchase it.

All was not lost with my phone call to Sony, as I used my valuable time to "pick the brain" of the very nice customer service person at Sony. She said she was surprised about some of the talk out there about "how easy" it is for the 505 screen to be damaged. She said she hasn't heard of that being a frequent problem, and said if it were, Sony would have recalled the model. She said they have done it with items valued at $1,000+, so she wouldn't see why they wouldn't do it for a Sony product sold for $300.00.

In any event, if I ever travel with my Sony Reader, I will take no chances: it's being wrapped up in that super huge bubble wrap!

--
ô¿ô
Crusader
Palm Springs, CA
(Yep, that's my full legal name and
activism is my game!)
http://crusading4u.blogspot.com/

[recycledelectron]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Simply that it's all too easy to completely inadvertently apply pressure or a twisting force to the screen which can fracture it.

Harry, that's the strongest argument ever for Sony replacing the PRS-505. Warranties usually offer a replacement if a product breaks under normal use. We refer to "manufacturing defects," when products break under normal use.

The Sony Reader is advertised as a portable device that lets you read books anywhere. It comes with a case that is implied to be sufficient to protect it. If you treat it like a book, it should survive.

If it is so fragile that the slightest pressure might break it, then it's not suited to being taken anywhere. It's more suited to being placed in a protective case marked "FRAGILE" and never removed from a lab. There should be warnings issued to not bump the table the Reader is on. Untrained users should not be allowed to touch it.

Andy

[PHugger]

This boring tale has a happy ending!
I started a new thread - HERE



PCH