Warner Bros. Embarrasses Self, Everyone, With New “Disc-to-Digital” Program

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With respect, I disagree. CDs are not copy protected; DVDs and BDs are.

And who imposes the copy protection?

Proponents of DRM consistently say that it's to prevent large scale piracy, or perhaps even that's it's to prevent small-scale piracy.

I haven't come across any that propose that the purpose is to prevent the owner from viewing the media on their preferred equipment. This, surely is just an unfortunate side-effect.

However, with this fee-paying service, they are, in effect, saying that the purpose of the DRM is to restrict your viewing options.

Looks like a rip-off to me.

[Catlady]

I don't see any indication of how much it costs. That would be the deciding factor for me. The article seems to be way over the top in criticizing WB for the program.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't see any indication of how much it costs. That would be the deciding factor for me. The article seems to be way over the top in criticizing WB for the program.

Even at no-dollars it would still be too much, unless you value your time as worthless. I don't get in my car and drive down to a Chapters to get my ebooks, and I'm certainly not going to waste my time going to a store to get a digital copy of a movie I already own, in an inferior format/quality to what I could get if I bothered to rip it myself.

WB's proposed system is basically asking me to pay money to have my time wasted; it's about as far divorced from the reality that the rest of us live in as it's possible to be.

[azazel1024]

Or how about either getting rid of DRM or allowing congress to remove the provision in the DMCA making it illegal to remove DRM from something I've paid money for.

Frankly all the BS over copyright is really just starting to infuriate. More than it really should, but damnit I spent money on the product and the company is trying to continue controlling what I do with that product even though format shifting is perfectly legal.

Oh, but wait, I can't remove the DRM to format shift. Oh, but I could point a video camera at my TV to record it if I wanted to format shift it.

BULL PUCKY!

Stop trying to gouge consumers again and again and again and again. Offer your product at a resonable price and allow use to do WHATEVER we want to with it, so long as we aren't distributing it (or a few of the other copyright no-nos like public performance). I'll pay a resonable price for that and I'll be happy and respect your company intead of loathing your company and completely ignoring things like removing the DRM from things I bought and format shifting them anyway.

The point is that you should be able to legally download a DRM removal tool and a format shifting tool completely legally and do it all on your own. Copyright is artifical already, though I honestly SUPPORT copyright law (though I don't support life + 70 or more years. When copyright first started, it was 14 years and could be renewed once for another 14 years. Life + 20 for independent creator or 50 years for corporate copyright is way more than enough).

This is double dipping combined with making it difficult on the consumer, for no reason other than greed and/or an attempt to trump up more charges against the consumer public to push for more "screw the little guy" copyright laws.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by azazel1024

Or how about either getting rid of DRM or allowing congress to remove the provision in the DMCA making it illegal to remove DRM from something I've paid money for.

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for removing DRM?

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by teh603

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for removing DRM?

They've taken people who provided the ripping software to court. DVD Shrink is one example I can remember off the top of my head.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by teh603

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for removing DRM?

Not that I ever remember, providing DRM removal tools is another story.


It takes about 15 min to rip a DVD into a DRM free iso. I don't see doing that any different than removing DRM from an eBook.


Now if Penguin or some other publisher were to offer something like this (trade in your pbook for a digital copy) I might possibly be interested even if I had to pay someplace like B&N a small fee for verifying things.

[azazel1024]

For removing DRM no, as mentioned for providing DRM removal tools, yes they have. That said, whether or not they have taken anyone to court for personally removing DRM, the fact that it is illegal is an issue.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

However, with this fee-paying service, they are, in effect, saying that the purpose of the DRM is to restrict your viewing options.

Looks like a rip-off to me.

But the service probably isn't aimed at technically-able people such as yourself. I imagine there are quite a few people who would be happy to pay a modest sum (if it is modest) to get a digital version of their DVDs.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But the service probably isn't aimed at technically-able people such as yourself. I imagine there are quite a few people who would be happy to pay a modest sum (if it is modest) to get a digital version of their DVDs.

No doubt true, but I would counter by asking you to consider that:

1. the number of people who don't know any better probably isn't enough to sustain this proposal, let alone for it to put any sort of dent in piracy; and

2. the people who don't know how to rip their own discs probably don't care about digital copies.

WB needed an easy to use mechanism for people to get digital copies of their movies in a DRM free format (why bother inconveniencing paying customers when pirates will provide in any event?), but what they provided seems like the amateur-hour idea of a circa 1990s internet start-up.

Like I said though, this idea isn't meant to work. It's just here so the studios can buttress their argument that the U.S. Copyright Office shouldn't grant an exemption from the DMCA to allow people to legally rip their own movies. Afterall, why do people need an exemption when there's something this easy to use?

[azazel1024]

Which should be allowed/included when you originally purchase the movie. I'll grant you, there is no feasible way to enable this for legacy media.

Oh wait, there is. That CSS key on DVDs and the encryption key on Blu Ray movies is "unique" to the product you purchased. IE, within reason you can provide a program a person can download, that will allow them to put in their DVD or Blu Ray movie and it'll match the movie to a digital file that you can then download from Warner Brothers, Disney, etc.

Pretty much the Ultraviolet concept (preferably without sucking) and without really needing to add the digital codes that Ultraviolet is now including. It is somewhat less secure, but still relatively secure. You could spoof it, but I can't imagine someone isn't going to find a way to spoof Ultraviolet either.

Perfectly lay person capable. Or at least lay person capable enough, that if you are going to want/need a digital version, you are going to be able to easily figure out how to go to the publisher's website, download their app, pop the disk in your computer's drive sit back and wait a minute and then click download.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

I would have thought they would have managed to come up with something a little more elegant; this is the equivalent of Samsung trying to compete with the iPad by releasing a Lite Brite.

Here now, the Lite Brite never broke my concentration while I was trying to read Flaubert.

Oh, dear, I've crossed the threads.

I find this proposal amusing. Anyone even remotely interested in ripping their DVDs for their tablet almost certainly already knows how to do so. "Lay people" aren't going to WANT to watch videos on their tablets -- most lay people don't have tablets, won't want to set up a distribution system (Dropbox? What is this deviltry?) for easy access, and won't want to commit to the necessary storage and backup.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that heavy users of videos (we own hundreds; my "lay people" parents own... six. And use Redbox.) are simply not going to invest that much $ and time per DVD to rip them. Unless it's, like, a dime per and you can do them all in one day. And I'll bet it's not.

[Barty]

Hey I want this service for my books! I haul in all my paper books, and for a fee, they give me (good retail quality) ebooks. I'll buy that for a dollar!*


* obscure Robocop reference!

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But the service probably isn't aimed at technically-able people such as yourself. I imagine there are quite a few people who would be happy to pay a modest sum (if it is modest) to get a digital version of their DVDs.

But it would be totally unnecessary service if not for the DRM that they themselves chose to use.

The only reason there isn't an incredibly easy-to-use DVD 'convert for iPod/iPad' option in iTunes is because of the DRM and the DMCA.

I think Ninjalawyer has it right. They're doing this token gesture to try to get DVD ripping removed from the permitted exceptions to the DMCA in the USA.

[Krystl]

um. I happen to know many "lay-people" with i-pads and other tablets who are staring at their dvd's thinking horrible thoughts as to what to do with them and how to get them transferred and not wanting to pay for streaming. Tablets are being actively geared to the less "tech-saavy" (i.e. my mother) because they just want the media, etc. and do not need/want a full laptop.

I also know many people who are not "tech-saavy" and do NOT have the drm-ripping programs nor know where to get them (safely) to "strip and format change" their dvd collections so they can pack them up in a tablet for a transcontinental vacation, etc.

I, myself, have a ton of legally purchased DVDs that do not have digital rights keys and not all modern ones for purchase come with the DR either--still kind of hit and miss. If it were truly efficient, not too expensive, and moved them to a usb stick and/or SD card or whatever for transferability between devices, etc. why not? Especially since some of these DR rights are for one device only (Disney) causing a problem i.e. when you upgrade tablets. A huge plus would be it removing the DVDs regional coding for legally recognized copies of DVD/BluRay quality--with or without DRM.

Here in this forum we have a lot of people who have taken the time to learn things that most people just don't/can't do. I learn a lot, but I see a lot of "everybody knows" which just is not always true. And yes, it is 15 min and easy, once you have the (illegal, pshhht) programs and know how to use them.

I spend a lot of time explaining ACTA etc. to people or what the acronym DRM is and what it means. I still get well-meaning people sending me DVDs in the wrong regional code for my home as gifts.