12-03-2009, 04:53 PM | #16 | ||
Senile Delinquent
Posts: 96
Karma: 510
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Sweden
Device: several
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'll take a stab at answering my own question. If Joseph were a much better person, it would risk turning the story into a simple tale of persecuted innocence. If Joseph were much worse, say a murderer, it would risk turning the story into a simple tale of crime and punishment. As it is, the book is no simple tale of anything but something provocative and disturbing. |
||
12-03-2009, 05:06 PM | #17 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,490
Karma: 5239563
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad air|iPhone 4S
|
Quote:
|
|
12-03-2009, 08:05 PM | #18 |
¿Huh?
Posts: 349
Karma: 1004526
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: rural Jalisco
Device: HiSense A7 CC, Fire HD6, Kobo Libra2
|
I don't think it's a question of 'better' or 'worse'. He seems to me, I dunno, shallow, vapid...dorky comes to mind. I certainly would not classify him as representative of 'everyman' or very 'human'. I really disagree with you there, Ea.
And you are right, Vector, I can recall quite a few enjoyable books w/principal characters I didn't like...but at least they had some character. This guy for me is what the dictionaries define as 'an unsympathetic in literature or drama'. You are wrong though on the reluctance to enter unpleasant worlds. Most of my favorite books (Cormac McCarthy oeuvre comes immediately to mind) are set in pretty dismal worlds. Joseph world is fantastical and therein lies the 'rest of the story'...I don't care for fantasy. Still I am going to try The Castle. d |
12-04-2009, 12:30 PM | #19 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 19,832
Karma: 11844413
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
|
Quote:
It is severely exaggerated of course, but I wouldn't call it a fantasy world. BOb |
|
12-04-2009, 11:42 PM | #20 |
¿Huh?
Posts: 349
Karma: 1004526
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: rural Jalisco
Device: HiSense A7 CC, Fire HD6, Kobo Libra2
|
When I say fantastic I'm referring to the physical settings not the situations. It's the situation that epitomizes the Kafkaesque.
But of course you're right, BOb. When I looked it up the definitions usually included something like 'surreal surroundings'. I'd forgotten the 'impending danger' aspect of it. Would you categorize Albert Camus' (not read for years) or Samuel Beckett's (re-read frequently) writings as Kafkaesque? I think I would, but their settings are recognizable and for me making the situations more Kafkaesque. And more real. With Kafka's interiors, even streets, being incomprehensible you figure well, I'll just wake up from this bad dream and everything will be fine. Whereas in real life the illogical is intertwined w/the logical, the ordinary, making it that much more bewildering and bizarre. d Last edited by CharlieBird; 12-04-2009 at 11:44 PM. Reason: missed words |
12-05-2009, 07:49 AM | #21 |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Thanks for the discussion everyone. Kinda confirms my decision to not read it.
|
12-05-2009, 01:03 PM | #22 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 19,832
Karma: 11844413
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
|
Quote:
I am also glad I read A Passage to India even though I didn't totally enjoy that one either. This is the reason I am in the club to get exposed to new books and authors. I think my favorite book club book so far had to be The Hound of the Baskervilles... I ended up reading the full Holmes collection. Hmmm... this gives me an idea for a new thread and poll. BOb |
|
12-05-2009, 01:20 PM | #23 | |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Quote:
|
|
12-05-2009, 07:16 PM | #24 |
Junior Member
Posts: 7
Karma: 16
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: prs-505
|
I didn't find this an easy read but I did find it very interesting.
Some of the scenes seemed to be written in the same style that I have dreams in if that makes sense and for that reason I found it rather fascinating. I wish I had done a bit more research before reading because I think I would have got more out of it if I had treated it like a piece of art and less like a story. I am looking forward to reading the rest of his work now |
12-07-2009, 01:44 AM | #25 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,952
Karma: 213930
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Middelfart, Denmark
Device: Kindle paper white
|
|
12-14-2009, 11:31 AM | #26 | |
"Assume a can opener..."
Posts: 755
Karma: 1942109
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Local Cluster
Device: iLiad v2, DR1000
|
Quote:
There are, however, in any case, a lot of the jokes about bureaucrats, the way in which stupid policemen assert their authority in their own little way because they feel that's what's being asked of them, etc. (Much like you would never want to tease a TSA or police officer in the USA: They can do whatever they want in return, and the latter especially can then charge you with "obstruction", "resisting arrest", or "assault" whenever they feel like it.) The system has so many weird and hard-to-explain consequences for individuals (in how small-minded officials think they should behave themselves "as a police officer," and how they should tolerate no lip of any kind, etc.) as well as for anyone "accused" (take things as slowly as possible, don't not-show when you're summoned to court), who need never understand why they've been drawn into this weird netherworld, and will likely feel they don't deserve this (for very good reason), and will then resist, and cast "suspicion" upon themselves for not showing enough respect. Imagine, for instance, filing a suit against your local county for not giving you a building permit when they should. You file, they wait until the last possible day to submit the stuff they have to submit in order not lose by default, then you wait for the judiciary to move. Then you file your stuff again, they wait until the term is up, and they file something again. Meanwhile, however, you have to pay a lawyer (while the county likely has one on a retainer/costing them a flat fee per year), and your costs are running up quickly. You play this game until you've won, but by then you will have been unable to build whatever you were planning for 2-3 years, meaning you have been unable to invest this money elsewhere, and you've probably been billed about $200k in lawyer's fees. Now that you've won, you will have to file a separate suit for reparations (your lawyer's fees, mostly, as well as losses incurred through not being able to do what you wanted).. Which might take another 1-2 years. Does lawyering sound like fun already? Admittedly the things the lawyers in the Trial do seem a bit more arcane and less useful, but it's not that far from today's experience either. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Other Fiction Kafka, Franz: The Trial, v.1, 11 Nov 2007. | Patricia | Kindle Books | 5 | 08-11-2012 01:49 AM |
Kafka, Franz: The Trial, v1.0, 10 Nov 2007 | FlyTags | Upload Help | 4 | 11-11-2007 12:32 AM |
Other Fiction Kafka, Franz: The Trial, IMP, v.1, 11 Nov 2007. | Patricia | IMP Books | 0 | 11-10-2007 11:06 PM |
Other Fiction Kafka, Franz: The Trial, v.1, 11 Nov 2007. | Patricia | BBeB/LRF Books | 0 | 11-10-2007 10:59 PM |
PalmReaderPro - now 15days trial available | TadW | Reading and Management | 1 | 02-15-2004 09:35 PM |