Performance compare eink vs tablet

[webroot]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

What HarryT is saying is that the low-end devices are still faster than actual pieces of paper. This isn't exactly a subjective science, either.
I would also like a deeper (any?) explanation for your aspersions of "not so good touch technology".
No idea what weird feelings you have when you move your fingers, are you sure that is a problem with your ereader?


As for your "magical experience (not mentioning paper smell)", some people will complain about anything. (Whatever it is this time, anyway...)
The only time my books smell is when they are mildewed, which is a smell I abhor. Not exactly magical!!!

A quick googling on capacitive and IR touch technologies will tell you that IR is not so responsive and it require you to actually place fingers so that IR beams are obstructed whereas in capacitive can work with a slight gap and that has a "smooth touch" experience in a swipe gesture (between the two ends).

IR is used because its cheap. if it were good then tabs would have used them instead but perhaps eink will not be able to get any advantage from a capacitive owing to its own slowiness and with the help of 64mb ram

well it may be that printed page turns take same time but the point is it do not provide any progressive tactile feedback or animation in case of eink page turning or changing windows creates irritation, when i am turning paper paper something is happening right? so that time is bearable.

in this forum i have seen some people who swipe before reaching end of the page so by the time they reach end page turn can begin.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by webroot

A quick googling on capacitive and IR touch technologies will tell you that IR is not so responsive and it require you to actually place fingers so that IR beams are obstructed whereas in capacitive can work with a slight gap and that has a "smooth touch" experience in a swipe gesture (between the two ends).

Actually I find the exact opposite is true... you can flip a page on infrared touch without touching the glass at all, you just have to hover over the glass which can break the beam. So not even having to make contact with the glass certain is a "smooth touch." With capacitive touch, you have to actually touch the screen, there's no way to flip the page just hovering slightly above the screen. I can turn pages perfectly with a smooth swipe on my Sonys and Kobos that are infrared touch. The "smooth touch" swipe also works on capacitive (at least for others without my skin problems where capacitive just doesn't always work).

Originally Posted by webroot

IR is used because its cheap. if it were good then tabs would have used them instead but perhaps eink will not be able to get any advantage from a capacitive owing to its own slowiness and with the help of 64mb ram

As I said before, I wouldn't ever use a reader with capacitive touch, it doesn't play nice with my skin, and I read a lot out in cold weather where I'd need various special gloves, an expense I'm not willing to bother with. Infrared touch works perfectly for me, and I can use any of my 15 pairs of gloves while reading without a problem. Whether or not it's cheaper to make isn't a concern to me at all, more expensive isn't always better.

Kindles use capacitive touch (I bought one because it was super cheap on sale and figured it would pay for itself for the free books available, I don't actually use it to read on), so if capacitive touch works better for you, buy a Kindle. I'll be pretty SOL if the day ever comes when all readers use capacitive touch, options are always good to have to satisfy everyone's needs. I'll buy a few spare infrared touch of my favorite reader at the time when that day comes.

Originally Posted by webroot

well it may be that printed page turns take same time but the point is it do not provide any progressive tactile feedback or animation in case of eink page turning or changing windows creates irritation, when i am turning paper paper something is happening right? so that time is bearable.

in this forum i have seen some people who swipe before reaching end of the page so by the time they reach end page turn can begin.

Why some are turning pages a bit sooner right now at least for Kobo is that the current firmware is a tad slower turning pages. I'm sure it will be corrected in future firmware, and I'm one that does it. But it's not unbearably slow; as others have said, it's still much faster than turning pages of a physical book. If you need instant gratification of seeing something visual going on for those brief microseconds, set the refresh to every page, those page turns are pretty instant for me still, but I prefer to set refresh to around 50.

Edited for clarification.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

As for your "magical experience (not mentioning paper smell)", some people will complain about anything. (Whatever it is this time, anyway...)
The only time my books smell is when they are mildewed, which is a smell I abhor. Not exactly magical!!!

Mildew, deteriorating glue, dust, other people's tobacco (library books)... ugh. The only books that smell good to me are some of my old leather-bound ones, and they're fairly rare these days.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

Why some are turning pages a bit sooner right now at least for Kobo is that the current firmware is a tad slower turning pages. I'm sure it will be corrected in future firmware, and I'm one that does it. But it's not unbearably slow; as others have said, it's still much faster than turning pages of a physical book. If you need instant gratification of seeing something visual going on for those brief microseconds, set the refresh to every page, those page turns are pretty instant for me still, but I prefer to set refresh to around 50.

Actually, I just tested this using my Aura HD and a hard cover book, and the physical page turn was faster when reading an epub. Reading a kepub, the HD was just barely faster.

All of my Kindles, as well as my Onyx T68 were faster than the Aura HD.

Shari

[frahse]

Originally Posted by theducks

E-Ink is a display Media
E-Reader w/E-Ink is a low power reading device

A few years back, someone posted a link to a E-Ink display showing a VIDEO. Poor speed is not all the fault of the screen (there are speed limits, even with LCD)

The reason some cars get 50MPG is they used a small engine so they were optimized for fuel economy (not performance).
Most E-Ink readers are optimized for Battery Economy.

Sounds right!

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by shalym

Actually, I just tested this using my Aura HD and a hard cover book, and the physical page turn was faster when reading an epub. Reading a kepub, the HD was just barely faster.

All of my Kindles, as well as my Onyx T68 were faster than the Aura HD.

Shari

That's not the case with my Glo HD at all, it's less than 1 second to complete the new page, even with it being slower with this current firmware. I'm wondering if font size, type, etc. has anything to do with differences some see here. I do know a poorly formatted epub will be slower, but that's the fault of the publisher, not the reader. Different firmware can also give different results.

Yes, the Kindle is slightly faster for me, but you're talking less than a second to turn the page, how much faster does one need it to be for reading?

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

That's not the case with my Glo HD at all, it's less than 1 second to complete the new page, even with it being slower with this current firmware. I'm wondering if font size, type, etc. has anything to do with differences some see here. I do know a poorly formatted epub will be slower, but that's the fault of the publisher, not the reader. Different firmware can also give different results.

Yes, the Kindle is slightly for me, but you're talking less than a second to turn the page, how much faster does one need it to be for reading?

I like it to be fast enough so that by the time my eyes move from the bottom of the page to the top, it's on the new page. I know that I'm spoiled, but if I can have a reader that accomplishes that goal, I'm going to use it more often than any other.

Shari

[haydnfan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Amazon shows "Memories of Ice" as being only 945 pages.

I would just like to point out that the mass market paperback (mmpb) has a significantly smaller font size than the mmpbs of the other books in the series. It's actually one of the longer novels. Word count is 350-400k, making it Brothers Karamazov length. I'm currently reading the Bonehunters which is roughly the same length as Memories of Ice. In mmpb format it is close to 1300 pages long.

Word count and location numbers are both good absolute measures of book length. Page count is not.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by webroot

A quick googling on capacitive and IR touch technologies will tell you that IR is not so responsive and it require you to actually place fingers so that IR beams are obstructed whereas in capacitive can work with a slight gap and that has a "smooth touch" experience in a swipe gesture (between the two ends).

That says absolutely nothing about the responsiveness. I'm not so sure I want the screen to register input before I actually try touching it.

In any event, whatever you have heard, IR vs. capacitive has always been about registering screen contact vs. registering actual finger contact. e.g. capacitive touch does not trigger when a piece of clothing brushes the screen.

IR is used because its cheap. if it were good then tabs would have used them instead but perhaps eink will not be able to get any advantage from a capacitive owing to its own slowiness and with the help of 64mb ram

See above, under "piece of clothing brushes the screen". There are valid reasons to want capacitive touch on ereaders, so please stop suggesting I have said otherwise.

Capacitive touch has advantages over IR touch... because it has fewer false positives.

P.S. A number of ereaders use capacitive touch, not IR. That actually makes some people (like Ripplinger) angry.

P.P.S. Try 256 MB RAM.
But what does RAM have to do with capacitive touch? DO you have any facts at all?

well it may be that printed page turns take same time but the point is it do not provide any progressive tactile feedback or animation in case of eink page turning or changing windows creates irritation, when i am turning paper paper something is happening right? so that time is bearable.

I'll say it again -- some people actively go around looking for things to complain about.

in this forum i have seen some people who swipe before reaching end of the page so by the time they reach end page turn can begin.

Page turning usually takes less time than it takes to read a single word. Maybe if the user had an ereader that was abnormally slow, perhaps (?) one of the really old brands.
Or if they have a device that has a well-known firmware issue, i.e. something that really needs to be fixed -- and will.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Capacitive touch has advantages over IR touch... because it has fewer false positives.

It's swings and roundabouts and individual needs/wants. Capacitive requires special gloves, doesn't respond to all fingers, you can't use a pencil eraser to turn pages while you're eating, etc.

I've personally found the Kobo H2O to be the best of both worlds for me, because it detects clothing brushes as possible accidental water on the screen (and puts up a dialogue) rather than as page turns.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by meeera

It's swings and roundabouts and individual needs/wants. Capacitive requires special gloves, doesn't respond to all fingers, you can't use a pencil eraser to turn pages while you're eating, etc.

I've personally found the Kobo H2O to be the best of both worlds for me, because it detects clothing brushes as possible accidental water on the screen (and puts up a dialogue) rather than as page turns.

Wait until you have mastered the art of turning the page with the back of a chopstick while bringing food to your mouth, multitasking at it's finest

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by meeera

It's swings and roundabouts and individual needs/wants. Capacitive requires special gloves, doesn't respond to all fingers, you can't use a pencil eraser to turn pages while you're eating, etc.

Oh, I don't doubt that.

I am simply saying, if we are going to be listing arguments in favor of using capacitive touch, then I know what a reasonable argument sounds like -- and it isn't "the screen is actually responsive to attempts to get it to do stuff".

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Wait until you have mastered the art of turning the page with the back of a chopstick while bringing food to your mouth, multitasking at it's finest

I use my nose while I am chewing.


The obvious problem with your tradition is the requirement to use chopsticks. I can't see such a movement getting very far...


As a matter of professional curiosity, do you know of any chopsticks that incorporate a stylus, for working with capacitive touch screens?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

As a matter of professional curiosity, do you know of any chopsticks that incorporate a stylus, for working with capacitive touch screens?

It would be easy to make such a thing yourself, by covering the ends of chopsticks with the conductive material used in capacitive touchscreen gloves, like these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Capacitive-S.../dp/B00I0RHSVY

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by meeera

It's swings and roundabouts and individual needs/wants. Capacitive requires special gloves, doesn't respond to all fingers, you can't use a pencil eraser to turn pages while you're eating, etc.

I've personally found the Kobo H2O to be the best of both worlds for me, because it detects clothing brushes as possible accidental water on the screen (and puts up a dialogue) rather than as page turns.

What device do you have that doesn't respond to all fingers? I would think it's defective. Also, I use my pinky finger knuckle to turn pages when I eat.