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Old 08-15-2014, 01:27 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
I’d also like to propose another option being added:

A single category poll run by Dazrin. Multiple choice, visible votes, all votes are final so consider everything carefully beforehand, you can vote for as many or as few as you like. Voting open say two weeks to give everyone a chance to pass by here and vote. The top twelve become our categories. Any relevant ties and we have a run-off, single choice. Everyone can vote but if there’s a tie again then whatever Dazrin (or Tom) voted for breaks the tie.

Polls only allow thirty options, so here is the list I propose using as they seem to be the thirty most popular options (most often used, repeated, talked about, nominated or supported) when looking back at previous years and previous category nominations and polls:

Adventure/Travel
Award Winners
Banned/Challenged Books
Classics
Contemporary
Fantasy*
First in a Series
Foreign (Originally Non-English)
Free-For-All
Historical Fiction
History (Non-Fiction)
Horror
Humour
Indie
Mystery*
Mystery/Thriller*
Non-Fiction
Not Classic or Contemporary (Around 1980-2000)
Patricia Clark Memorial Library
Planes, Trains and Automobiles (and Boats)
Philosophy
Pulp Adventure
Romance
Science (Non-Fiction)
Science-Fiction*
Science-Fiction/Fantasy*
Second Chance
Short Stories
Thriller*
Young Adult

The apostrophe indicates similar categories that can’t all be voted into the top twelve. If a combined category (Science-Fiction/Fantasy, Mystery/Thriller) has more votes than either of its two single categories, then its two single categories are disqualified. If either single category has more votes than its combined category, then its combined category is disqualified.

Once we have our twelve categories then Dazrin (or Tom) will sort them into appropriate months and that’s that.
I'm fine with this, but I personally like to know if a category is meant for fiction , non-fiction, or both. For example, "Adventure/travel" has gone both ways, and I would prefer to not have it as a category if it could go either way. I would love to have a "fiction award winners" category, but I'm less interested in a category "non fiction award winners".

Sorry for the bias against non-fiction.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:32 PM   #62
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I see what you're doing there, it won't work... Well, it might...


Actually I wasn't trying to shoehorn you into it, I just thought you might like to do it if that option wins.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:14 PM   #63
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My definition of historical fiction is "stories that take place in the past and in our world." Generally I think of it as more than 100 years ago, but that is somewhat flexible. A novel in the 1980's doesn't seem "historical" to me since I lived it, but a WW2 novel might count. So that would include stories set in the American Civil War, Robin Hood, or King Arthur legends, etc. It would not include fantasy or science fiction things that weren't contemporary to the times, that is, "Abe Lincoln, Vampyre Hunter" wouldn't count, but the Greek epics w/ their gods would. I am sure others have their own definitions, and that is a good thing.
I was thinking along these lines as well. The time setting of the story is relevant, not when the book was published. I like post-WWII as the dividing line between historical and modern, but I know everyone will have different ideas on this. The "Classics" category is for books written some time ago. Although what defines a book as a classic is open to debate as well.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:22 PM   #64
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I missed this one when I was going through the thread earlier, I can change things however people want. Mims, treadlightly, JSWolf - you are the ones who have collaborated on this particular list, what do you think?
I personally have no attachment to what category is assigned to which month, but I do like the associations between holidays in the month (February-Romance, October-Mystery, April-Humour).
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:36 PM   #65
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Here is what the updated poll looks like. I have updated the options with the most recent comments that appear to have consensus. I will copy the relevant information from the linked posts into the poll thread (in spoilers) to make it easy to see what we are voting on.

Quote:
Do we want to keep the same categories as 2013/2014 for 2015?
  1. Yes, they are good as-is, see post 14 for the list.
  2. No, let's vote on the current categories to get rid of least favorite ones. Posts 7, 8, 13.
  3. No, let's get more non-fiction, posts 10, 11.
  4. No, let's use Jon/JSWolf's list, posts 46, 28, 37, 40, 41.
    This is the order proposed, as updated by treadlightly: <details removed for now>
  5. No, let's have a new vote (Dazrin's suggestion), posts 39, 25, 27.
  6. No, let's use sun surfer's list, post 54.
  7. No, let's have a new vote (sun surfer's suggestion), post 57
  8. No, let's do something else. Explain your response in the comments.
If we are still having a lot of comments/additions this afternoon I will wait to post the poll, but if things slow down before then I will go ahead and post it.
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:15 PM   #66
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Quote:
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What about keeping the 6 categories from last year that resulted in the greatest number of voters?
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
...
Following in the concept of the least popular categories Since we did the same categories in 2013 and 2014, we could take the bottom six vote participation categories from 2013 and do a vote for which ones should stay and the bottom three get relegated. Then take nominations for new categories that don't already exist (no duplicates) and vote in three new ones for next year. It would mean we'd get a fresh category about every four months and it would make the discussion of what categories relatively simple for upcoming years. Check voting results, vote for those to stay, gather new potentials, vote for new ones to add. The whole process could take less than a month with a week for each part.
I just went back through some of the earlier posts and realized I forgot this option, voting on the least popular from 2013 as the ones to be replaced rather than voting on all of the categories). Do you want me to add it to the poll?

It would look something like this:
"No, let's get rid of the low voter turnout categories, posts 19, 20, 23"

If we do include it, I would prefer to make it so that we just voted once on the replacement categories using the list in post 57 minus the categories we already have.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:52 PM   #67
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I'd vote for removing unpopular ones and subbing in one's we vote in as above. It gives a solution that allows the list of categories to change without having to go through twelve blind votes on what we should do each year.

One vote to come up with the three relegated categories, one nomination period for potential sub-in categories and one vote to find three categories to put in. Order is up to whomever is running the club. That oder would allow people to see what is moving out which may affect what they might like to see before nominating new categories and voting them in.
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Old 08-15-2014, 05:15 PM   #68
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I'd vote for removing unpopular ones and subbing in one's we vote in as above. It gives a solution that allows the list of categories to change without having to go through twelve blind votes on what we should do each year.

One vote to come up with the three relegated categories, one nomination period for potential sub-in categories and one vote to find three categories to put in. Order is up to whomever is running the club. That oder would allow people to see what is moving out which may affect what they might like to see before nominating new categories and voting them in.
Ok, I will add it, but I am wondering if we really need a nomination period? Nomination periods are a lot more work than just voting on a pre-defined list. After we vote some items out, could we just use this list or this list and remove the items we are keeping? Anyone could lobby for their preferred options in the vote threads, which would be sequential so it wouldn't be a mystery as to what is staying and what is going.

I guess I am saying that if we want to keep the nomination period in there I wouldn't want to run that option if it is selected. I have no problems with it if someone else will volunteer to run it.

Last edited by Dazrin; 08-15-2014 at 05:31 PM. Reason: clarified my position, I hope.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:21 PM   #69
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:16 PM   #70
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Update: I should be able to get the vote up this evening, we have had a couple unexpected events yesterday and today that are delaying me a bit.

Still looking for some feedback about using a list or having a nomination period for the last item added (posts 66-68), I would like to have that figured out before we start the vote so that we don't end up in limbo if it wins.

If you want to run the nomination period for that or for item C (non-fiction heavy option), send me a PM.

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No. Science Fiction is not the same as Fantasy. So that list cannot happen.
(Adds fuel...) This is just saying that since there isn't a fantasy category currently we should allow either fantasy or science fiction that month. It isn't saying they are the same. Personally, I fully support this if we want to keep basically the same categories as now.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:16 PM   #71
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(Adds fuel...) This is just saying that since there isn't a fantasy category currently we should allow either fantasy or science fiction that month. It isn't saying they are the same. Personally, I fully support this if we want to keep basically the same categories as now.
But the idea is to make changes to make it better. The same is not better. If we can have science fiction or fantasy for a topic, why not just drop all topics and have 12 months of free for all? Same difference. Same just as wrongness.

Last edited by JSWolf; 08-16-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:19 PM   #72
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This is the order I propose.

Jan - Anything Goes
Feb - Romance
Mar - Science Fiction
Apr - Humor
May - Nonfiction
Jun - Modern Fiction (year 2000 onward)
Jul - Classic
Aug - Not Modern Fiction (year 1999 backwards)
Sep - Fantasy
Oct - Mystery
Nov - Suspense/Thriller
Dec - Second Chance (the year's second place titles)

I've made the change as suggested by treadlightly. I've reposted it again because of the clarifications I've put in for some topics.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:24 PM   #73
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Thanks for doing this Dazrin!

I'd like to propose a poll option being this list:

January - Second Chance
February - Romance
March - Adventure/Travel
April - Classics
May - Mystery/Thriller
June - Award Winners
July - Non-Fiction
August - Science-Fiction/Fantasy
September - Banned/Challenged
October - Free-For-All
November - Foreign
December - Short Stories

It's almost exactly the same as our current categories, except I've added Fantasy to Science-Fiction since there was no Fantasy, and I've replaced the MR Library with Free-For-All.
No. Science Fiction is not the same as Fantasy. So that list cannot happen. One other issue, second chance is best in December for all the books that came in second for 2015 up to December.

Foreign is no good. What's foreign to some is not to others. Being in the US, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is a foreign book. I recently read Halting State by Charles Stross. I would call that a foreign book to those of us living anyplace outside of the UK.

Mystery and thriller can be so very different. Take a Hercule Poirot book vs any Jack Reacher book. No way are they even close to being in the same category.

Banned/challenged just brings up books that are mostly old and not very relevant and rather dull.

Last edited by JSWolf; 08-16-2014 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 08-17-2014, 07:58 PM   #74
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If anyone missed it, Dazrin has posted the poll. It will close on will close on 08-26-2014 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:21 PM   #75
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If anyone missed it, Dazrin has posted the poll. It will close on will close on 08-26-2014 at 08:24 PM.
Thanks, I should have done that myself.
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