08-28-2013, 10:55 AM | #31 | |
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I can afford to buy the books I read, and I agree that e-books don't break the bank of people who have even mediocre jobs, but if I were unemployed and had to make do with welfare, I couldn't afford e-books, not at €8+ for a novel that I read in a day or two. A core issue, I feel, is that e-books cannot be sold or bought "used". In the software world, there are now a handful of EU court rulings that confirm that licenses can be sold second-hand regardless of the vendor's terms (case of Oracle vs. UsedSoft), and this was also confirmed for games (see here). A German consumer protection organization is currently preparing a lawsuit against Valve/Steam in the same matter. In theory, the same should apply to e-books. Plenty of people would not re-sell their e-books, but just knowing that they could, if they so choose, might go a long way when it comes to buying vs. pirating. The trouble is that it isn't easy to implement, though, since the vendors would need to transfer the licenses, and there's more than one company that sells e-books, and they can be read on any device without any kind of authorization process. Possibly having to trade in a lot of freedom for the ability to re-sell e-books may not be desirable. |
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08-28-2013, 11:24 AM | #32 | |
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08-29-2013, 09:08 AM | #33 | |
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Avid readers are just people with a socially-sanctioned addiction. And they will feed that addiction no matter how their financial circumstances change, just like any addict. I think that's the point that is consistently overlooked in all of these discussions. Organizations (and writers) can try to demonize and attempt to criminalize uploaders and downloaders all they want, but as long as they keep coming at the issue from the wrong direction, they're never going to be able to effectively deal with their perceived problem. |
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08-29-2013, 09:16 AM | #34 | |
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Imported print books are often cheaper than ebooks, even brand new, but I find it increasingly difficult to handle and hold medium to large books, and I read three or four books a week at least. I'm mostly getting print library books and trying to deal with the pain and difficulty, but it's getting worse. Not sure how this is all going to pan out. |
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08-29-2013, 10:22 AM | #35 | |
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But you do, of course, realize that some on this forum, not without justification, will gleefully pounce on what you say and reply "just because you can't afford something doesn't mean you have the right to steal it." |
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08-29-2013, 12:18 PM | #36 | |
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08-29-2013, 01:07 PM | #37 | ||
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08-29-2013, 09:21 PM | #38 | |
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Authors see very little of the $10-20 that a book costs. The "can't afford" aspect is relevant to a discussion about piracy. The more expensive an e-book is, the more people will look into alternative ways of obtaining it. That doesn't make it legally acceptable, but then again, many things are legally unacceptable but nevertheless widely accepted by people (like removing DRM, which numerous folks consider ethically fine). |
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08-29-2013, 09:34 PM | #39 | |
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And yes there are people who cannot afford to pay for food, or shelter. When I was saying that nobody needs a bank loan, I was guilty of being too general. I was obliquely referring to most of the people who could actually afford to download. I am an avid reader, and have been very down and out to the point of living on unflavoured pasta noodles for a considerable time. Luckily for me I could usually go to the library and find a book to read as I was not limited to one genre or type of book. I have also lived in several towns without libraries of any sort or stores that carried books and depended for the most part on the kindness of strangers for my reading material. I came through it in one piece for the most part. I still think that most people who can afford the equipment to download can afford to buy a book or two if their need is that great. My parents were dirt poor and went into debt every Christmas which took them practically to next Christmas to buy presents which were more likely necessities such as underwear. But we still had books. And how did the reading addicts survive before the widespread use of the internet? Did they break into libraries and bookstores hauling of all the books they could carry? I sympathize with anyone who is an addict to the point of shaking and staying up all night throwing up, nightmares, Dts etc, even if they did it to themselves. And if this applies to anyone who cannot read books in a specific genre, then I sympathise with them. If it is a case of not having just what you want when you want it, I can sympathize with them too. I am eligible for retirement myself but continue to work to afford the toys that I want. Not all are within my means of course do I foolishly buy an occasional lottery ticket . I have many friends who are retired and are unable to work. I cannot think of any who think that their reduced circumstances are justification for pirating but maybe there are a few. For the most part those that must, live on their means, watch public TV, not cable, go to the library or used book stores, most do not go to the food bank even because they feel that they will be taking away from the truly needy. Different culture I guess. Helen Last edited by speakingtohe; 08-29-2013 at 09:37 PM. |
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08-30-2013, 02:30 AM | #40 | |
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I live in a jurisdiction where downloading is legal. In Switzerland downloading ebooks, music and software for private use is allowed. That's not because laws haven't kept up with technological development, but because law-makers have consciously decided that downloading above-mentioned material for private use can be considered fair use. When discussing corporate tax evasion you voice the opinion that companies using international law and loopholes are not acting unethically when using, for example, the rather light Swiss tax-regime instead of paying what they would be due in the UK. You argue it is their responsibility to reduce their tax burden to the minimum that is legally required. Personally, I also try to avoid paying more taxes than is necessary. Could the same principle not be applied to other areas of live? If I can legally download the Hobbit movie for free applying Swiss law, is that really more unethical than Warner using another Swiss law to reduce their US tax burden? Just for clarity, I will wait for the extended version of the Hobbit coming late fall, and will pay the 50 CHF or so for the DVDs. With regards to ebooks, I try to get them from libraries and otherwise buy them legally. Only for books available from Gutenberg, MobileRead, ebooksgratuites.com etc. that are still in copyright here, but public domain elsewhere I download them without feeling too guilty. |
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08-30-2013, 03:14 AM | #41 | |
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08-30-2013, 05:01 AM | #42 | |||
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Why would Swiss laws be acceptable if used by corporations to reduce tax burden (at the cost of the rest of society), but not for individuals to reduce their expenses (in this case at the cost of content producers)? If I dare quote: Quote:
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08-30-2013, 05:03 AM | #43 |
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If the law says that it's OK to take someone's work without paying then, in the immortal words of Dickens, "the law is an ass". In all seriousness, what is the justification for this? How can it conceivably be described as "fair use"?
Last edited by HarryT; 08-30-2013 at 05:07 AM. |
08-30-2013, 05:06 AM | #44 |
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Well, there is admittedly a difference between low taxes (companies still pay some money) and content providers getting nothing at all for their products. It's not really a sound analogy, I feel.
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08-30-2013, 09:23 AM | #45 | |
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Personally, I feel Swiss law is a bit light on both corporate fiscal issues and intellectual property rights. What I do not understand is that someone very focally defends entities profiting of favorable laws in one instance, even though many people consider those laws highly unfair, but considers it despicable if persons profit of favorable laws |
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