<i>, <em> or <span> for italics ?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Yes, I also use this technique when I don't want, or can't have, a visual representation on the page but still need the structural definition of a header...and the functionality of an auto-generated TOC.

eg.

<h2 title="Copyright" style="display:none" />

That I find rather sloppy and lazy to have styles in the XHTML code. The display:none should be done in CSS and the code would look like...

<h2 title="Copyright none"/>

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is an unusual eBook. In most cases, it's <p> for all of that. I would like it if the authors spoke out about the way their books are make as eBooks so maybe things would be made properly.

No it's not, Jon. That's not "most cases."

Are you serious? If Authors spoke out? What on earth do you think that would accomplish?

You realize you're talking to someone whom, out of 5,000+ ebooks, can count on ONE HAND the number of times I've seen a file with styles and headings used??????? WHAT is going on inside your noggin', brother?

Hitch

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That I find rather sloppy and lazy to have styles in the XHTML code. The display:none should be done in CSS and the code would look like...

<h2 title="Copyright none"/>

I would normally agree with not using styles in the code...However, your solution doesn't work at all.

1) I don't want the title to be 'Copyright none' I want it to be 'Copyright'
2) Without assigning a class then the display:none would apply to ALL <h2>
3) If I assign a class to it, then I'm not really saving anything am I

<h2 title="Copyright" style="display:none" />
vs.
<h2 title="Copyright" class="nodisplay" />

4) Some older readers don't recognize CSS files, so having the embedded style assures that I don't have the header pop up when I really don't want it to.
5) This only applies to 1, maybe 2, headers in the entire book. Soooo I'm comfortable with having the embedded style in this case.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The chapter headers are usually going like that:
ONE
[some fancy graphics]
It Begins
while in the ToC something like that is put:
Chapter one. It Begins
HTML hierarchic headers are useless here.

Ah... You mean that this is the wrong way of coding it:

<h2>ONE</h2>
<h3>[some fancy graphics]</h3>
<h4>It Begins</h4>

and with that, I agree. Those are not different level headings, those are different parts of the same heading. I hereby declare that the right way of coding™ it is (something similar to):

<h1><span class="number">ONE</span>
<span class="graphic">[some fancy graphics]</span>
It Begins</h1>

Yes, <h1>, because the chapter is probably the higher level. No, the book title in the title page is not the highest level, that's just presentational.

[Turtle91]

Have I ever mentioned you're evil...and totally wrong....

<h3>One <img alt="" src="graphic.jpg"/><span>It Begins</span></h3>


h3      {font-size:1.3em; font-weight:bold, text-align:center}
h3 img  {display:block; margin:.5em auto; width:15%; max-width:250px}
h3 span {display:block; margin:.5em auto 0; font-size:1.1em; font-variant:small-caps}

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

No it's not, Jon. That's not "most cases."

Are you serious? If Authors spoke out? What on earth do you think that would accomplish?

You realize you're talking to someone whom, out of 5,000+ ebooks, can count on ONE HAND the number of times I've seen a file with styles and headings used??????? WHAT is going on inside your noggin', brother?

Hitch

I've dug in the innards of many eBooks and I rarely see <h for chapter headers, sub headers, and section headers.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

4) Some older readers don't recognize CSS files, so having the embedded style assures that I don't have the header pop up when I really don't want it to.

Which Readers do not like CSS? I know Mobi doesn't on Kindles but Kindlegen sorts that.

[Turtle91]

Hmmm, I would say it is very few of the books I've looked into that DON'T use <h> tags. Occasionally I'll see some that use the <div> around everything and <p> around what should be headers.

Where do you get most of the books that you are cleaning up?

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Which Readers do not like CSS? I know Mobi doesn't on Kindles but Kindlegen sorts that.

I figured you were the expert on old readers...

But, yes, mobi was the one that came to mind.

[JSWolf]

Here are two scrambled eBooks that I did purchase that do not use h? for the headers. I did edit them, but I did not change the header class or change from h?. All p and all h? in these eBooks are in the same places as they were when downloaded.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

<h3>One <img alt="" src="graphic.jpg"/><span>It Begins</span></h3>


h3      {font-size:1.3em; font-weight:bold, text-align:center}
h3 img  {display:block; margin:.5em auto; width:15%; max-width:250px}
h3 span {display:block; margin:.5em auto 0; font-size:1.1em; font-variant:small-caps}

Absolutely not! "font-size:1.3em"? C'mon, it should be "font-size:130%"! And "width:15%" is definetely too small for my smart watch!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here are two scrambled eBooks that I did purchase that do not use h? for the headers. I did edit them, but I did not change the header class or change from h?. All p and all h? in these eBooks are in the same places as they were when downloaded.

Jon:

What are you proving? That there are sh***y bookmakers out there? Dude, I would absolutely stipulate to that. You're preaching to the choir, that there are crappy bookmakers.

It doesn't make it RIGHT, just because it's commonplace. People say "I could care less" daily...does that mean YOU will????

Hitch

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here are two scrambled eBooks that I did purchase that do not use h? for the headers. I did edit them, but I did not change the header class or change from h?. All p and all h? in these eBooks are in the same places as they were when downloaded.

Where did you get them? Certainly, different publishers have different standards of quality.

I'd expect near perfection with anything from booknook.biz, and I wouldn't touch anything from sma*?%!#ds....without expecting to do extensive fixing up.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Where did you get them? Certainly, different publishers have different standards of quality.

I'd expect near perfection with anything from booknook.biz, and I wouldn't touch anything from sma*?%!#ds....without expecting to do extensive fixing up.

Oh, darlin', perfection ain't us, but we try hard. :-)

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've dug in the innards of many eBooks and I rarely see <h for chapter headers, sub headers, and section headers.

Interesting. I just did a search on my ebook archive (ebooks before they are loaded into calibre for fixup). Out of 7914 epubs, 7401 had <hx> tags while the remaining 513 did not. I looked at 20 or so of the ones that didn't and they used <p> tags for the headers. Makes building the TOC whether nav.xhtml or toc.ncx) more of a pain than it needs to be.

Most used at most 2 levels <h1> and <h2> while one coded by an anal retentive went all the way from <h1> to <h6>.

Some of them created by Vellum wrapped 4 or more levels of <div> around the <hx> tag. The funny part being that 2 or 3 of the <div> tags had a class that did not exist in the CSS.

That search ran most of the day while I was busily working from home. I suspect that having to unpack the epubs into a temp directory before searching did nothing for the search speed.