Youtube mates with epub

[pittendrigh]

I'm a born again youtube addict. Woodworking and photo editing are two of my favorite hobbies. I learn new skills almost on a daily basis. At youtube. There are other video sites too but youtube is, for better or for worse, the most skills-instruction oriented.

I'm 70. After retina surgery I can only read with a tablet now, or on my big 32" inch desktop monitor. So I spend a lot of time there.

In the instructional world what is missing most is a hybrid sexual cross between youtube and kindle-mobi-epub-playbooks. The technology is mostly there. Epub3 supports embedded video but the readers mostly don't.

And to the extent hand held readers do support embedded video that genre is still fundamentally flawed because video files are too big to download and store on a hand held device. Text in the hand married to video on the server is one obvious way to make this happen. But most readers intentionally do not support external video, perhaps for security reasons. Why is not that important. That it is not supported is the point.

Another way to do this would be to have web server software that displays epub3, that also has the ability to expand clickable links into live video, inside the current epub page.

If you want to learn how to cook a steak you can learn on youtube now. But if you want to learn how to cook for a living you need books. You need an online course that marries books with live video. That capability doesn't really exist yet. But it should.

Does anybody think otherwise? It amazes me something so obvious and so powerful is staring everybody in the face. And yet it still isn't happening. And why isn't clear.

Ok. Flame away. Or do you agree?

PS: one final post script note, emphasizing the the instructional context. To read Moby Dick you don't need video. I'm talking about how to teach complex skills. If you want to learn how to build a boat without getting a job as a boat builder's apprentice, a combination of the written word married to bits and pieces of live video is the way to go. This is technology in its infancy that will I think, flood like a broken dam once it starts to flow.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

This is technology in its infancy that will I think, flood like a broken dam once it starts to flow.

You've been wishing that were the case for quite a while now.

[pwalker8]

Many of the online courses that I've seen are a blend of video and text, but typically it's more video with links to text rather than text with links video. There are many web pages that blend text and video, is that what you are talking about?

[pittendrigh]

Good point. You are right. This can be done with raw HTML now. And kindof/sortof with Sigil. I think so anyway. Edit epub with sigil, so it embeds video, working on your localhost. Save as epub3. Then use something like calibre to export as HTML. Then scp the raw HTML up to the server. I think you need a hacker to install various plugins first. I don't think any of the open source softwares come out of the box able to do this.

And you could simply edit raw HTML with a text editor so it looks like a book. But it takes huge self-discipline. There is no software I know of that enforces a book-like look and feel, as you make your HTML.

It would be interesting if you could simply scp a *.epub3 up to the DOCUMENT_ROOT of a web sever and have any not-extension-enhanced browser automagically show it. So it looks like a book. And so it can display live video, embedded inside the pages of the book.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

There is no software I know of that enforces a book-like look and feel, as you make your HTML.

It would be interesting if you could simply scp a *.epub3 up to the DOCUMENT_ROOT of a web sever and have any not-extension-enhanced browser automagically show it. So it looks like a book. And so it can display live video, embedded inside the pages of the book.

I guess I just don't see why it would even be remotely necessary (or desired for that matter) for a website (which is already perfectly capable of displaying text inter-mixed with embedded videos in a variety of easily consumable formats) to need to "look like a book" to be effective. The multi-media learning experience you're describing is most certainly not "a book," so why cling to book paradigms (physical books or ebooks) for its presentation/consumption?

[pittendrigh]

DiapDealer I disagree.
HTML supports video and epub3 is a subset of HTML. But the two are not easy to put together.

If the two are put together (video and text) it's no longer a book? Fine. All we need is a new term.

I'm primarily a boat builder and the spring boat building season is upon me. I won't have time for software development for another six months. At the github link below:
https://github.com/pittendrigh/robopages

is software that is currently running the following demo:
http://roadkill.montana-riverboats.c...on-0004.xhtml#

...which is an epub3 made with Sigil and then copied up to the server, where is manually unzipped with a bash command. And now it's showing as HTML, even though the data is organized as epub.

I ran out of time and have not yet tested embedded video. And now I have boats to build. It should work. If video does not work with this code it will be relatively minor hacking and debugging to get it to run.

I'm pleased with what I've done so far. It runs on the server (it is not javascript running on the client). So it can all be displayed inside the context of a surrounding content management system.

Next winter, when the boat season is done, I'll add video. It might be working now. Also, on this above demo the TOC is always visible. It could easily be made to squash down into an icon, and then expand up to visible again, with a few lines of javascript.

But I have boats to build now. My work is useful to me. It's live on a real website. Putting it behind a password barrier is not difficult. When I didn't have the "automatic epub3 display" my sys-admin life was an order of magnitude more difficult. Building with Sigil enforces a constent look and feel. And it all seems to work.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

DiapDealer I disagree.
HTML supports video and epub3 is a subset of HTML. But the two are not easy to put together.

Why do the two need to be put together at all? Current webserver technology has no need of epub3 adherence/capability to display similar content. Unzip the epub, plop it on a server, and style it appropriately for desktop/mobile. Done. Displaying text interspersed with video doesn't require new or special technology for web servers.

[ilovejedd]

Until we get ubiquitous reading systems support, there's not much point.

Personally, given how many broken links I've encountered on the web, I think self-contained epub3 with embedded video would actually be ideal for instruction manuals, etc. Problem is other than Apple Books, what other reading platforms have epub3 video support? E-ink is out. Just too slow.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Until we get ubiquitous reading systems support, there's not much point.

Personally, given how many broken links I've encountered on the web, I think self-contained epub3 with embedded video would actually be ideal for instruction manuals, etc. Problem is other than Apple Books, what other reading platforms have epub3 video support? E-ink is out. Just too slow.

epub3 is primarily a zipped website and most browsers can open local files just fine. And at least one common browser already knows how to open epub without plugins.

Why not just use a perfectly ordinary tablet/laptop/desktop?
Just feed it a zipped website. Or an epub3 if you think the added metadata matters that much.
All the pieces are out there. If you think it's useful, just do it.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

epub3 is primarily a zipped website and most browsers can open local files just fine. And at least one common browser already knows how to open epub without plugins.

Why not just use a perfectly ordinary tablet/laptop/desktop?
Just feed it a zipped website. Or an epub3 if you think the added metadata matters that much.
All the pieces are out there. If you think it's useful, just do it.

I already know what epub(3) is. Just saying a ubiquitously supported, self-contained, standard format not reliant on websites or the internet would be quite nice for certain types of content. Alas, the ubiquitous support for epub3 with embedded video simply isn't there at the moment.

By browser, I'm guessing you're referring to Edge? I don't use Windows 10 myself so I wouldn't know but does it support epub3?

I remember having the option to save webpages as single MHT archive files in Firefox but I could only open those files in Firefox and videos weren't saved in the archive. Well, it's the same thing when I save webpages as webpage, complete. Videos are excluded when saving.

Personally, I'd love to be able to just use any web browser and, say, save an instructable with embedded video as a large, DRM-free epub3 file and be able to open on any web browser or reader app without the need for plugins.

Unfortunately, it seems more and more that we're gearing towards proprietary, locked down systems instead of easily shareable and open standards.

[haertig]

There are tons of courses available with text and video. And also interactive.
The thing is, these courses don't use EPUB. And the question is, "Why would they want to?" There are plenty of ways to deliver this content without trying to shoe-horn it into a format that is probably not the best technology to use in the first place.

My complaint is that many of these courses - the pay ones specifically - often require you to download a plugin to view their content. This is reasonable, since they want to deter theft. But these plugins are usually for Windows only. You might find one for Mac here and there, but almost never for Linux. If you don't have a Windows computer, you'll pretty much need to be a guru to get the content viewable on your computer. Luckily, may Linux users are indeed gurus and have become quite adept using emulators, Wine, virtual machines, etc. But still, it sure would be nice if there was a more universal solution. Could that be EPUB? I don't know, but I doubt it. A universal solution should address Windows, Mac, Linux, Unix, Android, iOS, etc. It will take a little CPU horespower for a device to handle any kind of solution they may come up with. I'm afraid that eReaders just plain don't have the required horsepower (or memory, or storage), so they're probably out. If they do add this horsepower to an eReader you now have a tablet, not an eReader.

For the kind of training you're looking for, your device needs to have adequate CPU, memory, storage, display size and resolution, fast response interactive user interface, and a network connection. This describes a computer, not an eReader. I like your idea for more interactive training, but I disagree with an eReader and EPUB being the vehicle to deliver it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by haertig

There are tons of courses available with text and video. And also interactive.
The thing is, these courses don't use EPUB. And the question is, "Why would they want to?" There are plenty of ways to deliver this content without trying to shoe-horn it into a format that is probably not the best technology to use in the first place.

My complaint is that many of these courses - the pay ones specifically - often require you to download a plugin to view their content. This is reasonable, since they want to deter theft. But these plugins are usually for Windows only. You might find one for Mac here and there, but almost never for Linux. If you don't have a Windows computer, you'll pretty much need to be a guru to get the content viewable on your computer. Luckily, may Linux users are indeed gurus and have become quite adept using emulators, Wine, virtual machines, etc. But still, it sure would be nice if there was a more universal solution. Could that be EPUB? I don't know, but I doubt it. A universal solution should address Windows, Mac, Linux, Unix, Android, iOS, etc. It will take a little CPU horespower for a device to handle any kind of solution they may come up with. I'm afraid that eReaders just plain don't have the required horsepower (or memory, or storage), so they're probably out. If they do add this horsepower to an eReader you now have a tablet, not an eReader.

For the kind of training you're looking for, your device needs to have adequate CPU, memory, storage, display size and resolution, fast response interactive user interface, and a network connection. This describes a computer, not an eReader. I like your idea for more interactive training, but I disagree with an eReader and EPUB being the vehicle to deliver it.

Agreed on all counts.

That's why I suggested tablets and above.
And unless it's a commercial venture all the necessary tools for crafting rich interactive websites are both mature and readily available. Packing the data for offline use is trivial.
If it is a commercial venture there are still plenty of wrappers available, preferably from the Indie gaming world. Some are cross platform, too.

No need to reinvent the wheel; just pick the right tool and environment.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Personally, I'd love to be able to just use any web browser and, say, save an instructable with embedded video as a large, DRM-free epub3 file and be able to open on any web browser or reader app without the need for plugins.

What you describe drives a coach and horses through copyright law. The fact that someone makes a video available on a website doesn't give you the right to copy it without permission.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The fact that someone makes a video available on a website doesn't give you the right to copy it without permission.

Web browsers do this all the time. It's default behavior - caching. Websites can employ techniques to discourage caching, some being more effective than others. But my point is, "downloading and saving locally" is the norm. And most web browsers have the capability to "save for offline reading" in addition to basic caching. In a legal sense, I'm guessing that by merely existing on the internet, websites are giving you implied permission to "copy locally". I have not heard of any web browser designer being sued for caching content. This doesn't mean that you can take your local copies, repackage them, and sell them. That's quite a different matter.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by haertig

Web browsers do this all the time. It's default behavior - caching.

For web pages, yes, (which is why tools such as Pocket are legal) but not for video - that's a whole new ballgame. Video is streamed, not downloaded as a whole and then played. Streaming and downloading are entirely different operations. Any online video has an implicit licence to stream it, but that certainly doesn't mean that it's OK to download the whole thing and store a local copy of it.