Review: Powerbook or PC Notebook?

Alexander Turcic · 05-31-2004, 03:31 PM

It is about time to invest in a new notebook.

For the first time, I've been thinking of buying a Macintosh-based computer. Yes, a very big step, because I wasn't exactly fond of Macs in the past (I learned to hate them at college).

But things are different since Panther OS X. I like the fact that Darwin runs on top of FreeBSD and allows to run *nix based programs. In the past, I could have argued that I was missing this or that application not available for Macs. Today, I am not aware of any such restriction any more, thanks to Darwin.

The big con: price. Why is Apple so horrendously expensive? And beside the general high price, here in Europe you pay another 20% premium compared to US prices. My question to you - if you are a Mac-owner: Is Panther OS X and a nice style enough reason for a PC junkie to seriously consider buying a Powerbook? Please help me to make a decision!

Zire · 05-31-2004, 10:55 PM

Hey Alex,

I am an avid mac user and hearing that someone is planning on switching is cool but. Yeah I said but. Is the switch going to be easy for you? Will it be your primary machine? Is the cost too much for you? I would say that the switch from someone who is used to windows will be harsh apple and windows are similiar but not. I sometimes get pissed when I see how many windows programs there are and how many apple programs there are. This is especially the case when it comes to palm. There are many pc only programs that interact with the palm.

I know that macs are expensive but you pay for their customer service. When I bought my Imac I purchased the 3 year extended warranty with it as well and used it twice. Once when my wife spilled wine on the keyboard and when I was trying to play quake the down button would not work. I called apple and they sent me a replacement keyboard just like that. I didn't even have to give back the old keyboard so I salvaged the keys just in case :-). The second time was just before the big blackout when I had a massive hard drive fail and needed it replaced. I took the mac to my local apple store and was up and running again in 4 days.

I know that you would make the right decision.

gyffes · 06-01-2004, 10:22 AM

If price is your big problem, go iBook. 90% of the power of a powerbook for 60% of the price.

And get the extended warrantee -- one of the few purchases that warrants it is a portable, esp one so expensive.

I am a devoted macfan who uses a PC about 90% of the time and can't wait for Virtual PC to return to the Mac.

Oh, as to price: It's what the market will bear. But remember, you get what you pay for: Dell uses crappy components.. our Compaq batteries die (honest) DAYS after the 1-year warantee expires -- when we call to complain, they say the warantee goes into effect the day THE ORDER IS PLACED, not once it arrives with us. Nice, that. Quality product, quality customer service. NOT. *sigh*

DaNDeE · 06-01-2004, 03:35 PM

Short answer: Yahhhh man!
Long answer: Life is much more easier with mac, than it is on windose. Using mac for quite some time (and getting flamed for that by some admin of this very board (guess who

) I found two major arguments for mac.

1. Whenever you use windows and come to the point where you wonder why e.g. drag and drop works in a certain program but not in the other, well, this is what windows stands for. Inconsistancy. This is really a major part, that drives me mad when i use a pc. Dunno if this goes for *nix, but windows.

2. Till panther, you where pretty much degraded to be a user, in the negaive way. No matter what you wanted to do, there was not much of a chance, that you could do a work around, if a problem appears, simply, while the system won't let you. Either things worked out or not. Since darwin and panther, you got the control back and even more...

... hope I don't miss the point here. but all I want to say: GET ONE! You won't regret it and always remember: In a world without borders and fences who needs windows and gates???

Sorry for my bad english. Things just not comming out but I had to drop these lines, to get you goin, Alex, although you already know, what I thinks about you and your new computer.

ignatz · 06-01-2004, 04:29 PM

Just make sure that you do some research on the model that you plan to get. Cory over at boingboing.net has posted multiple times about certain apple laptop models that have fairly serious display problems that are largely unhandled by apple. No judgement here, I don't know anything about the issues. Be careful!

Alexander Turcic · 06-02-2004, 03:22 PM

I will go to one and only Apple store I know of in Switzerland (located in Zurich) this Friday. Perhaps a hands-on test is the best way to decide which way to go. I will also make sure to review the quality of the screens, thanks ignatz. My current notebook (a Toshiba Satellite 5100) has an OK screen; it is bright and has a good contrast, but only 15" standard. I would like to have a 16:9 display with my next notebook.

ignatz · 06-02-2004, 03:33 PM

I suppose you're not interested in a Linux notebook? It has come a long way and some of the distributions look amazing, on a par with apple and way past anything windows can do. I suppose it all depends on what programs you need to run and if you're willing to take on another project! I have a buddy who just loaded Suse on a wireless laptop and it's amazing.

Alexander Turcic · 06-02-2004, 03:47 PM

Linux notebook is nothing else but a standard notebook PC, right? I was thinking about installing Linux on my notebook, but I was afraid of limited driver support. Also, I run FreeBSD on a desktop here, and I like Gnome and KDE, but I think they are still far from Panther's intuitive design.

Here is my recent Mac "experience." I visited a friend (hi DaNDeE

) and had the chance to play with his Powerbook. Do you know Exposé? It is the way how you quickly navigate open windows in Panther. Exposé is simple and elegant design - Microsoft has never been able to accomplish this with Windows. I don't know why. They have enough money to buy an entire country, yet, they fail to hire some capable designers to at least copy what Apple has been doing so successfully over time.

ignatz · 06-02-2004, 04:11 PM

Well, I have to say that I have not seen anything of Panther. Seen just a bit on a friend's computer, but haven't had the chance to poke around myself. I have no doubt that it's pretty extraordinary. And with the next version of windows pushed to 2006, now's a good time for a switch! But of course you can experiment with Linux on your old laptop. My friend who put Suse on his had a little trouble with his wireless but after a little googling he got it and now it's smooth enough that his less experienced wife uses it as her primary machine.

Oh, I just had a look at the Apple site and Expose is definitely pretty damn impressive... Windows just fades more for me all the time. They just sit on their laurels... I'm just too cheap to pay for Apple gear. I'll stick with the cheaper PC gear and do what I can. I'll be curious to hear what happens for you, though it sounds like your mind is nearly made up

DaNDeE · 06-03-2004, 03:43 AM

Alex, you are getting tired, you visions are fading, clear your mind. When I snip my finger, you will get up, go to the next Apple store and grab you something, with an Apple Logo on it. *SNIP*

Alexander Turcic · 06-03-2004, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaNDeE

When I snip my finger, you will get up, go to the next Apple store and grab you something, with an Apple Logo on it. *SNIP*

LOL! I tell you what. Give me EUR 2500, and I *promise* you I will go to the next Apple store - today, this hour, this minute, anytime!

gyffes · 06-03-2004, 10:07 AM

Alex, MS _IS_ copying Apple's designs.. that's why we in the Mac community referred to WinME as MacOS7-lite.

Zire · 06-03-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyffes

Alex, MS _IS_ copying Apple's designs.. that's why we in the Mac community referred to WinME as MacOS7-lite.

LOL I remember that. It does look aqua like doesn't it??

DaNDeE · 06-03-2004, 02:35 PM

I remember they presented Win 95 using an Amiga with ScalaMM... looks like they really need help from others, to get work done

Alexander Turcic · 06-03-2004, 02:46 PM

I agree MS is trying to copy Apple's designs, but the stress is on TRY. Why they do it so badly, as a powerful company as MS is, I have no idea. DaNDeE showed me a funny audio clip where Steve Jobs talks about 'visions' and how MS aka Bill Gates misses this particular aspect of business...

05-31-2004, 03:31 PM	#1
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Powerbook or PC Notebook? It is about time to invest in a new notebook. For the first time, I've been thinking of buying a Macintosh-based computer. Yes, a very big step, because I wasn't exactly fond of Macs in the past (I learned to hate them at college). But things are different since Panther OS X. I like the fact that Darwin runs on top of FreeBSD and allows to run *nix based programs. In the past, I could have argued that I was missing this or that application not available for Macs. Today, I am not aware of any such restriction any more, thanks to Darwin. The big con: price. Why is Apple so horrendously expensive? And beside the general high price, here in Europe you pay another 20% premium compared to US prices. My question to you - if you are a Mac-owner: Is Panther OS X and a nice style enough reason for a PC junkie to seriously consider buying a Powerbook? Please help me to make a decision!

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05-31-2004, 10:55 PM	#2
Zire Fanatic Posts: 522 Karma: 14050 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Astoria, NY Device: Zire 71	Hey Alex, I am an avid mac user and hearing that someone is planning on switching is cool but. Yeah I said but. Is the switch going to be easy for you? Will it be your primary machine? Is the cost too much for you? I would say that the switch from someone who is used to windows will be harsh apple and windows are similiar but not. I sometimes get pissed when I see how many windows programs there are and how many apple programs there are. This is especially the case when it comes to palm. There are many pc only programs that interact with the palm. I know that macs are expensive but you pay for their customer service. When I bought my Imac I purchased the 3 year extended warranty with it as well and used it twice. Once when my wife spilled wine on the keyboard and when I was trying to play quake the down button would not work. I called apple and they sent me a replacement keyboard just like that. I didn't even have to give back the old keyboard so I salvaged the keys just in case :-). The second time was just before the big blackout when I had a massive hard drive fail and needed it replaced. I took the mac to my local apple store and was up and running again in 4 days. I know that you would make the right decision.

06-01-2004, 10:22 AM	#3
gyffes Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 56 Join Date: Mar 2003 Device: eMate!!! oh, and an NX-60	If price is your big problem, go iBook. 90% of the power of a powerbook for 60% of the price. And get the extended warrantee -- one of the few purchases that warrants it is a portable, esp one so expensive. I am a devoted macfan who uses a PC about 90% of the time and can't wait for Virtual PC to return to the Mac. Oh, as to price: It's what the market will bear. But remember, you get what you pay for: Dell uses crappy components.. our Compaq batteries die (honest) DAYS after the 1-year warantee expires -- when we call to complain, they say the warantee goes into effect the day THE ORDER IS PLACED, not once it arrives with us. Nice, that. Quality product, quality customer service. NOT. sigh

06-01-2004, 03:35 PM	#4
DaNDeE Connoisseur Posts: 65 Karma: 25 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Device: Newton/iPhone/iPad	Short answer: Yahhhh man! Long answer: Life is much more easier with mac, than it is on windose. Using mac for quite some time (and getting flamed for that by some admin of this very board (guess who ) I found two major arguments for mac. 1. Whenever you use windows and come to the point where you wonder why e.g. drag and drop works in a certain program but not in the other, well, this is what windows stands for. Inconsistancy. This is really a major part, that drives me mad when i use a pc. Dunno if this goes for *nix, but windows. 2. Till panther, you where pretty much degraded to be a user, in the negaive way. No matter what you wanted to do, there was not much of a chance, that you could do a work around, if a problem appears, simply, while the system won't let you. Either things worked out or not. Since darwin and panther, you got the control back and even more... ... hope I don't miss the point here. but all I want to say: GET ONE! You won't regret it and always remember: In a world without borders and fences who needs windows and gates??? Sorry for my bad english. Things just not comming out but I had to drop these lines, to get you goin, Alex, although you already know, what I thinks about you and your new computer.

06-01-2004, 04:29 PM	#5
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	Just make sure that you do some research on the model that you plan to get. Cory over at boingboing.net has posted multiple times about certain apple laptop models that have fairly serious display problems that are largely unhandled by apple. No judgement here, I don't know anything about the issues. Be careful!

06-02-2004, 03:22 PM	#6
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	I will go to one and only Apple store I know of in Switzerland (located in Zurich) this Friday. Perhaps a hands-on test is the best way to decide which way to go. I will also make sure to review the quality of the screens, thanks ignatz. My current notebook (a Toshiba Satellite 5100) has an OK screen; it is bright and has a good contrast, but only 15" standard. I would like to have a 16:9 display with my next notebook.

06-02-2004, 03:33 PM	#7
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	I suppose you're not interested in a Linux notebook? It has come a long way and some of the distributions look amazing, on a par with apple and way past anything windows can do. I suppose it all depends on what programs you need to run and if you're willing to take on another project! I have a buddy who just loaded Suse on a wireless laptop and it's amazing.

06-02-2004, 03:47 PM	#8
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Linux notebook is nothing else but a standard notebook PC, right? I was thinking about installing Linux on my notebook, but I was afraid of limited driver support. Also, I run FreeBSD on a desktop here, and I like Gnome and KDE, but I think they are still far from Panther's intuitive design. Here is my recent Mac "experience." I visited a friend (hi DaNDeE ) and had the chance to play with his Powerbook. Do you know Exposé? It is the way how you quickly navigate open windows in Panther. Exposé is simple and elegant design - Microsoft has never been able to accomplish this with Windows. I don't know why. They have enough money to buy an entire country, yet, they fail to hire some capable designers to at least copy what Apple has been doing so successfully over time.

06-02-2004, 04:11 PM	#9
ignatz mechanoholic Posts: 582 Karma: 1000217 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sarasota, FL Device: Nook STR/iPhone 4S/EVO 4G	Well, I have to say that I have not seen anything of Panther. Seen just a bit on a friend's computer, but haven't had the chance to poke around myself. I have no doubt that it's pretty extraordinary. And with the next version of windows pushed to 2006, now's a good time for a switch! But of course you can experiment with Linux on your old laptop. My friend who put Suse on his had a little trouble with his wireless but after a little googling he got it and now it's smooth enough that his less experienced wife uses it as her primary machine. Oh, I just had a look at the Apple site and Expose is definitely pretty damn impressive... Windows just fades more for me all the time. They just sit on their laurels... I'm just too cheap to pay for Apple gear. I'll stick with the cheaper PC gear and do what I can. I'll be curious to hear what happens for you, though it sounds like your mind is nearly made up

06-03-2004, 03:43 AM	#10
DaNDeE Connoisseur Posts: 65 Karma: 25 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Device: Newton/iPhone/iPad	Alex, you are getting tired, you visions are fading, clear your mind. When I snip my finger, you will get up, go to the next Apple store and grab you something, with an Apple Logo on it. SNIP

06-03-2004, 10:07 AM	#12
gyffes Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 56 Join Date: Mar 2003 Device: eMate!!! oh, and an NX-60	Alex, MS _IS_ copying Apple's designs.. that's why we in the Mac community referred to WinME as MacOS7-lite.

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06-03-2004, 02:35 PM	#14
DaNDeE Connoisseur Posts: 65 Karma: 25 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Device: Newton/iPhone/iPad	I remember they presented Win 95 using an Amiga with ScalaMM... looks like they really need help from others, to get work done

06-03-2004, 02:46 PM	#15
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,163 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	I agree MS is trying to copy Apple's designs, but the stress is on TRY. Why they do it so badly, as a powerful company as MS is, I have no idea. DaNDeE showed me a funny audio clip where Steve Jobs talks about 'visions' and how MS aka Bill Gates misses this particular aspect of business...