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Old 10-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #1
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New PW3 arrived: Comparing it to Nook Simple Touch

Immediately downloaded a book from Calibre onto it (not registered to my Amazon account yet). No problems there.

Had to immediately compare it to my Nook Simple Touch (several years old).

The PW3's light is nice. The Nook doesn't have a light.

Increased resolution on the PW3 screen - I see no practical advantages for text. Pictures will probably see improvement though, I'll test that later.

The Nook has navigation buttons on the sides in addition to its touchscreen. PW3 is touch only. PW3 responds slightly faster to page turns. I don't use the Nooks buttons often, but they are handy at times. I will miss them.

Feel in the hand, I must say I like the Nook slightly better. Subjective only. I can't quantify why I prefer the Nooks feel.

Screen contrast with light off - PW3 has more contrast. With light on, increased contrast is more noticeable.

Options: Nook has more. e.g., you can specify how long before it goes to screensaver.

Text justification: The Kindle will only allow full justification (it says "book does not allow left justification"). The particular book I am testing with was a non-Amazon acquisition in AW3. Converted in Calibre to ePub for the Nook. The converted ePub is left justified (that may have been a Calibre option, I just accepted all the default when converting). The large gaps that can occur between words when using full justification on these small display screens is very annoying. So far, this is my biggest disappointment with the PW3. I really don't like full justification.

Fonts: Need to experiment. So far, I prefer the Nooks "Malabar" font to the PW3's "Bookerly" font.

Organization: Apparently you can't put side-loaded books into Kindle "Collections" on the PW3! This is horrible if you have a lot of books. No problem putting side-loaded books onto the Nooks "Shelves". The Nook shelves are not perfect in any way, shape or form, but they certainly beat the "nothing" available on the PW3. Is Amazon saying that unless you buy from them, you aren't allowed to organize your books? I think this may be a deal killer for the PW3. I may be sending it back because of this. I will research more to see if this is a flaw that can be worked around, or a deliberate attempt to lock customers into the Amazon ecosystem (which is what I suspect).

SD card: Supported in the Nook, not available in the PW3.

So in summary: A years old outdated Nook appears to beat a brand new PW3 for the things that are important to me. Because of two significant issues: No organization of side-loaded books on the PW3, and forced full justification of text.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:12 PM   #2
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Anything I side loads I put in my kindle collections. You said you haven't registered it yet, I think you need that for the collections to work. I never had a kindle that wan't registered.

I don't know about the text justification as I only read in full. That might also be an issue with the conversion you did. Someone will know the answer to that.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:24 PM   #3
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Anything not an Amazon purchase will show up when you select: "Docs".
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
Text justification: The Kindle will only allow full justification (it says "book does not allow left justification"). The particular book I am testing with was a non-Amazon acquisition in AW3. Converted in Calibre to ePub for the Nook. The converted ePub is left justified (that may have been a Calibre option, I just accepted all the default when converting). The large gaps that can occur between words when using full justification on these small display screens is very annoying. So far, this is my biggest disappointment with the PW3. I really don't like full justification.
Don't use it, then. The Kindle will happily display left-justified books.

Quote:
Organization: Apparently you can't put side-loaded books into Kindle "Collections" on the PW3!
Um, no. Collections will work just fine once you've registered the Kindle.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
Text justification: The Kindle will only allow full justification (it says "book does not allow left justification"). The particular book I am testing with was a non-Amazon acquisition in AW3. Converted in Calibre to ePub for the Nook. The converted ePub is left justified (that may have been a Calibre option, I just accepted all the default when converting). The large gaps that can occur between words when using full justification on these small display screens is very annoying. So far, this is my biggest disappointment with the PW3. I really don't like full justification.
Most books purchased from Amazon are delivered in KFX format. Enhanced typesetting, which includes automatic hyphenation and the option to switch between full and left justification, is only enabled for books in KFX format. You can create and sideload books in KFX format using a calibre plugin.

If you wish to stick with KF8 (.azw3) format you can use the Hyphenate This calibre plugin to add soft hyphens that will enable hyphenation to allow better spacing of words per line.

As others have mentioned, some functionality is not enabled until you register the device.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowell View Post
- - - - -
As others have mentioned, some functionality is not enabled until you register the device.
And you are describing the firmware behavior without ever mentioning what firmware version the device is running.
(See: the "Device Info" panel in the "Settings" menu tree).
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
Immediately downloaded a book from Calibre onto it (not registered to my Amazon account yet). No problems there.

Had to immediately compare it to my Nook Simple Touch (several years old).

The PW3's light is nice. The Nook doesn't have a light.

Increased resolution on the PW3 screen - I see no practical advantages for text. Pictures will probably see improvement though, I'll test that later.

The Nook has navigation buttons on the sides in addition to its touchscreen. PW3 is touch only. PW3 responds slightly faster to page turns. I don't use the Nooks buttons often, but they are handy at times. I will miss them.

Feel in the hand, I must say I like the Nook slightly better. Subjective only. I can't quantify why I prefer the Nooks feel.

Screen contrast with light off - PW3 has more contrast. With light on, increased contrast is more noticeable.

Options: Nook has more. e.g., you can specify how long before it goes to screensaver.

Text justification: The Kindle will only allow full justification (it says "book does not allow left justification"). The particular book I am testing with was a non-Amazon acquisition in AW3. Converted in Calibre to ePub for the Nook. The converted ePub is left justified (that may have been a Calibre option, I just accepted all the default when converting). The large gaps that can occur between words when using full justification on these small display screens is very annoying. So far, this is my biggest disappointment with the PW3. I really don't like full justification.

Fonts: Need to experiment. So far, I prefer the Nooks "Malabar" font to the PW3's "Bookerly" font.

Organization: Apparently you can't put side-loaded books into Kindle "Collections" on the PW3! This is horrible if you have a lot of books. No problem putting side-loaded books onto the Nooks "Shelves". The Nook shelves are not perfect in any way, shape or form, but they certainly beat the "nothing" available on the PW3. Is Amazon saying that unless you buy from them, you aren't allowed to organize your books? I think this may be a deal killer for the PW3. I may be sending it back because of this. I will research more to see if this is a flaw that can be worked around, or a deliberate attempt to lock customers into the Amazon ecosystem (which is what I suspect).

SD card: Supported in the Nook, not available in the PW3.

So in summary: A years old outdated Nook appears to beat a brand new PW3 for the things that are important to me. Because of two significant issues: No organization of side-loaded books on the PW3, and forced full justification of text.
Register it and try other books.
I know it does more than full justification.
I know it does left and right.
Like you said: you side loaded one book. One book cannot determine what the PW3 will or won't do.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:28 PM   #8
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The PW3 was not registered to my account yet because I couldn't get it to connect to my router's WiFi. Everything else in the house connects just fine. And I tried disconnecting, then reconnecting my Fire HD8 and that worked fine. However, the PW3 refused to connect. So my initial post here was with an unregistered Kindle. Not because I wanted that, but because it wouldn't connect.

Eventually, after several tries, it finally connected just now as I try it again. So I am now registered. Nothing changed here WiFi-wise or network-wise. The entire time, both during my earlier attempts and my successful connection just now, the PW3 has been about three feet from the router. Not a signal strength issue.

Anyway, I am finally connected and registered. And I see that I am allowed to create collections and add books to them now. The PW3 did warn that my collections would not be synced to the cloud due to side-loaded books. That's fine.

The PW3 did forget the place I was in the book, and lost the bookmarks I had set up somewhere during the connection/registration process. No problem there, as I was just playing around and not setting real bookmarks. I can set bookmarks again, so I'm sure this was just some minor "who cares?" issue when the PW3 did it's syncing up to Amazon servers.

Next I downloaded a book from my Amazon library. Book downloaded to 89% then PW3 lost it's connection. Still three feet from the router, and PW3 was showing full signal bars prior to dropping. Router has been rock stable for years. No other devices every drop or fail to connect. This will warrant some close watching - maybe I got a bad PW3. I was able to reconnect and the book finished downloading. This second normally downloaded book allows me to change text justification. The original side-loaded one still does not.

[ This second book I added looks much better that the first book did (when fully justified). Just a difference in word lengths I guess. First book that doesn't look so good is "Spartan Gold" by Cussler. Second book is "Riptide" by Preston/Child. Although, Riptide looks good page after page, and Spartan Gold looks not-as-good page after page. So that tends to point to something other than random word length, but I can't say for sure. ]

So I side-loaded another book, "The Final Day" by Forstchen. This one looks good fully justified as well, but would not allow left justification when I attempted that. So it appeared that side-loading a book may disable being able to change justification. As a further test, I stripped the DRM off of that same Riptide book mentioned above and side-loaded it onto the PW3 as opposed to downloading it as I did the first time. And the side-loaded version would not allow changing text justification. So this looks like it proves things: side-loading disables changes to text justification. It was the same file in both cases (albeit minus DRM and side-loaded in one of the test cases). This may not turn out to be an issue. If a book looks good, I don't care how it's justified. Hopefully most books will look good. But in the specific case of Spartan Gold, that one does not look good fully justified and I would like to change justification. This is not a deal-breaker by itself, just a minor disappointment.

The potential deal-breaker was what appeared to be a lack of organization of side-loaded books into Collections. But after registering the PW3, that initial issue resolved itself. Yea!

So I'm off to the races learning how to use this new PW3. So far, I like the Kindles bookmark feature better than the Nooks. The fact that you can preview a bookmarked page before jumping to it. That's cool. The overall interface is different, but that's to be expected. A little practice and I should have it down. WiFi connectivity will be getting close scrutiny however. I'm betting that if this indeed turns out to be a chronic problem, then a replacement PW3 would fix things. I could have just received a lemon.

Firmware version is 5.8.9.0.1

Oops. Scratch that. The PW3 just decided to update itself. Now it's running 5.8.10. Maybe that's the firmware update that fixes the WiFi bug (fingers crossed!) No difference to text justification for side-loaded books though.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
No difference to text justification for side-loaded books though.
See my previous post in this thread for the explanation for this.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:43 PM   #10
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Still to test ... jhowell's comments on justification in KFX vs. KF8 format. No doubt, the normal download of my Riptide test book came down in KFX format. But when I did my test to side-load that same book, I re-downloaded it using Kindle for PC v1.17 in preparation for using Calibre to strip the DRM and side-load it via USB. That downloading with Kindle for PC would have forced KF8 format.

So I'll bet jhowell is perfectly spot on in pointing this out - the difference in yes/no to text justification changes is really an issue between KF8 and KFX, and NOT between normally downloaded and side-loaded as I suggested above.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum. A very good place to come and learn from. Thanks for all the help all you folks are giving me!

[ edit - jhowell and I were typing at the same time in these last two replies to this thread. I didn't see the reply immediately above until after I hit "save" on mine here. ]
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Firmware version is 5.8.9.0.1
That is (was) the source of your problems.
That is not a firmware released for customer use, it is a firmware build used for production quality control testing only.
You can't expect it to work the way a customer use firmware does, because it is not one.

= = = =

Start over with your testing and your review, anything prior to the update is not relevant to a customer use device.
Note: You could have jail broken that version if you had wanted to, it is a special case of the current directions (does not need the installation of a "factory_initial" firmware build because it already is (was) running a "factory_initial" build).

Last edited by knc1; 10-10-2017 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knc1 View Post
That is (was) the source of your problems.
That is not a firmware released for customer use, it is a firmware build used for production quality control testing only.
You can't expect it to work the way a customer use firmware does, because it is not one.
I am a customer. I bought the PW3 directly from Amazon. I didn't do anything to the PW3 other than turn it on today, shortly after it was delivered. I wonder why Amazon would have delivered it with this firmware installed?
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
I am a customer. I bought the PW3 directly from Amazon. I didn't do anything to the PW3 other than turn it on today, shortly after it was delivered. I wonder why Amazon would have delivered it with this firmware installed?
Production screw-up.
You are not the first.

Go here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custo...deId=200203720
Scroll down to "Paperwhite 7th generation".
You do not find that firmware version number mentioned.
The way their build system works, if a firmware build is done for customer use, then it also generates a source package and an entry on that page to meet the license requirements of some of the software used.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
So I'll bet jhowell is perfectly spot on in pointing this out - the difference in yes/no to text justification changes is really an issue between KF8 and KFX, and NOT between normally downloaded and side-loaded as I suggested above.
To clarify, if a book does not specify its justification, the Kindle will display it fully justified. If, however, it specifically specifies left justification in its CSS, that will be honoured. So if left justification is your preference, add "text-align: left" to the book's CSS (in the appropriate place) when you do your Calibre conversion, and the Kindle will display the book left-justified.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinisajoy View Post
I know it does more than full justification.
I know it does left and right.
The Kindle will do left justification, full justification, and right justification, although right justification is of rather limited utility, generally speaking.
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