Amazon removed books from my Kindle - Page 53

Quoth · 03-06-2025, 08:55 AM

There is no legitimate reason to have PDOC and EBOK tags.
And if Amazon is selling this an ereader, not a subscription terminal, then they ought to enable epub on the device (not a creepy Send to Kindle) and/or publish azw3 / KF8 spec.

They have over 90% of English book market world-wide and it's the dominant ereader. The reason I and others bought Kindles wasn't to buy Amazon ebooks, but easy access to nearly 100,000 public domain ebooks and for own generated content (which must not be sent to Amazon).

There has never been a suggestion that the Kindle was only for Amazon Content. After the 1984 debacle they said they'd never delete content (it was up to them to compensate rights holder, not delete the books). The Kindle has been shipped since 2007 and it's only more recently the deletion of content started, long after present version of KU loans.

So this is probably a bug and arrogance on Amazon's part not to fix it. Removal of D&T is also nothing to do with Piracy but arrogance, part of wanting people to have WiFi always on. The Deletions don't occur if WiFi is mostly on, so it's not about KU loans.
Send to Kindle tather than an offline tool or native epub support, and how the Scribe works for PDF annotation is part of the overweening arrogant desire of Amazon to control what should be private!

jhowell · 03-06-2025, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When you convert an ePub to KF8 using KindleGen and then MobiUnpack to split the KF8 from the Mobi, what is the book type set? is it EBOK or PDOC?

It is not either/or. Amazon's kindlegen tool does not generate that metadata field at all. (The field is number 501 in the EXTH header of MOBI/KF8 format, commonly known as CDEContentType.)

Quoth · 03-06-2025, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

It is not either/or. Amazon's kindlegen tool does not generate that metadata field at all. (The field is number 501 in the EXTH header of MOBI/KF8 format, commonly known as CDEContentType.)

ha!

salamanderjuice · 03-06-2025, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Except, legally, they can't do that. There is a longer answer. In fact, even if a bug, this is criminal behaviour by Amazon, even if the content was illicit, though usually it's not.

I'm sure there's some out in the Kindle OS EULA that allows them do this. Is it maybe still illegal at least in some jurisdictions? Probably. But it's not THAT much different from say internet of things device makers bricking the entire device when they close up shop or random shuttering of services and making all content you purchased unusable. Nobody has stopped those things either yet.

Quoth · 03-06-2025, 10:21 AM

EULA's have been found in many countries to be invalid, especially if not clearly visible before purchase, and can't over-ride local laws.

I'd never buy a true IoT device (i.e. something that only works if there is an internet server from the vendor) and any one that does is asking for trouble.

FAQ on my Weather Station: How do I stop it connecting to Internet? Ans: Input an incorrect password.
It does need a WiFi connection to set up, but not actual Internet. Updating firmware needs the Wifi and Internet. Sharing to Wunderland is optional, as it should be.

jhowell · 03-06-2025, 10:46 AM

To me this sounds a lot like creating a fake ID in order to get into an exclusive club and then being upset when you get kicked out because the guy you are impersonating has an expired membership.

Sirtel · 03-06-2025, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

To me this sounds a lot like creating a fake ID in order to get into an exclusive club and then being upset when you get kicked out because the guy you are impersonating has an expired membership.

A fake ID wouldn't be necessary, if Amazon stopped intentionally crippling sideloaded books. I don't mean Goodreads, X-ray etc, but a basic thing like displaying covers. They didn't display covers for PDOCs for years, and that was why calibre devs implemented the automatic EBOK tag for AZW3 files. Hell, even publishers like Baen who sell direct used the EBOK tag for their dual MOBI files.

Rather than play such games, it would be more honest to outright disable the USB transfer.

DiapDealer · 03-06-2025, 11:37 AM

Seriously? Being unable to sideload ANY personal content would be preferable to sideloaded content with no covers? That seems like a weird hill to die on.

Sirtel · 03-06-2025, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Seriously? Being unable to sideload ANY personal content would be preferable to sideloaded content with no covers? That seems like a weird hill to die on.

I didn't say it would be preferable. I said it would be more honest.

DiapDealer · 03-06-2025, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I didn't say it would be preferable. I said it would be more honest.

Ah. I get it now. It's just that I'm fairly certain that sort of "honesty" would go utterly unheralded. So I'm not really sure what the point was for mentioning it if it wouldn't actually solve... well... anything. Technical features and their perceived shortcomings are rarely rated by their honesty.

Sirtel · 03-06-2025, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Ah. I get it now. It's just that I'm fairly certain that sort of "honesty" would go utterly unheralded. So I'm not really sure what the point was for mentioning it if it wouldn't actually solve... well... anything. Technical features and their perceived shortcomings are rarely rated by their honesty.

Not displaying covers is not a technical shortcoming, but an intentional act. There was absolutely no technical reason why Amazon couldn't have displayed covers for personal documents. They just preferred not to.

DiapDealer · 03-06-2025, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Not displaying covers is not a technical shortcoming, but an intentional act. There was absolutely no technical reason why Amazon couldn't have displayed covers for personal documents. They just preferred not to.

Yes.
Sorry. Forgot where I was for a moment. Carry on.

vermontcathy · 03-07-2025, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

I believe that this only happens if the Kindle has the wifi turned off for a long period of time. For those people who leave their wifi turned on all the time, the books don't get deleted.

I could be wrong though...I've never experienced the problem. Of course I also leave wifi on almost all the time.

Shari

I have kindles disconnected from wi-fi for perhaps a couple months at a time. Mostly because I have several and sometimes just don't use one for a couple months. I've never had anything deleted despite having lots of... shall we say "liberated" ebooks. I use Send to Kindle after I liberate the books, sending an ePub. Everything works great - covers, syncing of furthest page read across devices, etc. I did used to sideload from Calibre, but now that covers, typeset options (bold levels, etc.) and syncing all work now, with Send to Kindle, that's what I do. I've never had books removed from my devices when I reconnect to wi-fi. So maybe Send to Kindle is a solution?

shamanNS · 03-07-2025, 09:52 AM

Using Send to Kindle = getting books with PDOC cdeType = no deleting of books.

Hollow Man · 03-07-2025, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamanNS

Using Send to Kindle = getting books with PDOC cdeType = no deleting of books.

This is how I chose to solve it, but I suspect most here are antsy about having a copy of their non Amazon books being loaded on Amazon's servers.

03-06-2025, 10:21 AM	#785
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,987 Karma: 103895653 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	EULA's have been found in many countries to be invalid, especially if not clearly visible before purchase, and can't over-ride local laws. I'd never buy a true IoT device (i.e. something that only works if there is an internet server from the vendor) and any one that does is asking for trouble. FAQ on my Weather Station: How do I stop it connecting to Internet? Ans: Input an incorrect password. It does need a WiFi connection to set up, but not actual Internet. Updating firmware needs the Wifi and Internet. Sharing to Wunderland is optional, as it should be. Last edited by Quoth; 03-06-2025 at 10:28 AM.

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03-06-2025, 08:55 AM	#781
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,987 Karma: 103895653 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	There is no legitimate reason to have PDOC and EBOK tags. And if Amazon is selling this an ereader, not a subscription terminal, then they ought to enable epub on the device (not a creepy Send to Kindle) and/or publish azw3 / KF8 spec. They have over 90% of English book market world-wide and it's the dominant ereader. The reason I and others bought Kindles wasn't to buy Amazon ebooks, but easy access to nearly 100,000 public domain ebooks and for own generated content (which must not be sent to Amazon). There has never been a suggestion that the Kindle was only for Amazon Content. After the 1984 debacle they said they'd never delete content (it was up to them to compensate rights holder, not delete the books). The Kindle has been shipped since 2007 and it's only more recently the deletion of content started, long after present version of KU loans. So this is probably a bug and arrogance on Amazon's part not to fix it. Removal of D&T is also nothing to do with Piracy but arrogance, part of wanting people to have WiFi always on. The Deletions don't occur if WiFi is mostly on, so it's not about KU loans. Send to Kindle tather than an offline tool or native epub support, and how the Scribe works for PDF annotation is part of the overweening arrogant desire of Amazon to control what should be private!

03-06-2025, 10:46 AM	#786
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,065 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	To me this sounds a lot like creating a fake ID in order to get into an exclusive club and then being upset when you get kicked out because the guy you are impersonating has an expired membership.

03-06-2025, 11:37 AM	#788
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,558 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Seriously? Being unable to sideload ANY personal content would be preferable to sideloaded content with no covers? That seems like a weird hill to die on.

03-07-2025, 09:52 AM	#794
shamanNS Wizard Posts: 1,114 Karma: 12345678 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Serbia Device: Kindle PW5, Kobo Libra 2, Kindle PW1	Using Send to Kindle = getting books with PDOC cdeType = no deleting of books.

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