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Old 10-10-2021, 01:57 AM   #46
crich70
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I have no love for vinyl. In fact my old record collection was donated to an art student who used the vinyl for an art collage. Somewhere they are glued to a wall. That's where they belong. The album covers, thrown in the recycling bin.

I'm a Quboz subscriber, and have a decent collection of SACD, hi-rez recordings purchased from HD Tracks, and a bunch of CDs. There are some phenomenal recordings out there that vinyl will never touch, some recorded in DSD. (Joni Mitchell Both Sides Now) Brickwalling and loudness wars are not the same thing, but are commonly misconstrued on forums. Brick walling is the process of limiting the upper frequency range to 1/2 the sample rate. So for a CD about 22 kHz for a 44.1 kHz sample rate. It's a normal and necessary part of putting out a CD or any digital PCM file as required by the Nyquist theorem. (Nyquist theorem and anti-aliasing) For higher rez that would be 48 kHz for 96 kHz sample rates, etc. They don't have to be compressed (compressing dynamic range). That's a different beast altogether. Loudness or dynamic range compression is the process of limiting the volume difference in dB of the lowest sounds to the highest sounds. A cd has a theoretical dynamic range of 96db (16 bit) which can be 120 db with noise shaped dither, vinyl does good to get to 70. I have many great sounding CDs without compression (loudness wars) and they will all be brick walled at 22 kHz. A well mastered CD can be hard to tell from SACD or high rez files, some say impossible. Also, in today's modern era of recording almost anything new even in vinyl has spent some time in the digital realm prior to being run through a dac for making the record. When the Beatles first came out with their 2009 remaster of all their work, the original vinyl that was put out was produced form a 44/16 master, an error they have since corrected.
I reserve the right to disagree about the vinyl records. While I don't know that they fetch a high price generally I imagine there are some that by their rarity at the time they were made may be worth some money. And some people claim there is some loss of quality when a piece of music is transferred to CD or Mp3 format. (At almost 51 yrs of age I can't tell the difference, but as I recall from college even the average 25 yr old doesn't have as sharp a sense of hearing as a 5 yr old does). To be fair though the CD and Mp3 format music pieces do last longer than the old vinyl ones did what with the needle being dragged over their surface with each play.
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:59 AM   #47
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One argument with vinyls that I could realistically accept is that they were mastered with different goals. And thus that experience is more pleasing.

Now, for that to apply to new production is very questionable. But sure, with older vinyls I could see it.
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Old 10-10-2021, 12:21 PM   #48
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One argument with vinyls that I could realistically accept is that they were mastered with different goals. And thus that experience is more pleasing.

Now, for that to apply to new production is very questionable. But sure, with older vinyls I could see it.
I blindly notice (feel) the difference when I digitize an analog medium myself and play both alternatively on my equipment in my music room.
But I have no idea what the reason is.
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Old 10-10-2021, 12:43 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ottischwenk View Post
I blindly notice (feel) the difference when I digitize an analog medium myself and play both alternatively on my equipment in my music room.
But I have no idea what the reason is.
Yes, I notice the same thing. It's frustrating because I mostly play the digitized versions for convenience, but they really don't sound as good. I just put it down to my sound card not being good enough for recording.
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Old 10-10-2021, 02:30 PM   #50
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One argument with vinyls that I could realistically accept is that they were mastered with different goals. And thus that experience is more pleasing.

Now, for that to apply to new production is very questionable. But sure, with older vinyls I could see it.
Still true! The "newer" vinyls are touted to be heavy compared to the past vinyls, especially in the 1970's during the oil crunch where the recording companies started to use recycled vinyl. That's when I invested in a record clamp to 'flatten' any warped record.

RCA sold some SACDs that sounded nicer & fuller than the CDs of the same artist (Rubinstein) claiming that it was using the original masters where some had used a 3 microphone recording. Why the difference as both the SACD & the CD were digitals? The recording engineer and/or the producer wanted to create a certain sound to their tastes. I have a "producer's cut" recording where Emmy Lou Harris sounded from the front speakers while the guitar was coming from the back; does not make sense.
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Old 10-10-2021, 04:41 PM   #51
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I have a "producer's cut" recording where Emmy Lou Harris sounded from the front speakers while the guitar was coming from the back; does not make sense.
Sounds as if the spirit of the sound engineers behind the old ping-pong stereo recordings lives on.
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Old 10-11-2021, 04:51 PM   #52
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Sorry, but there are NO valid reasons for vinyl to come back.

Well. I guess that's settled then
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:32 AM   #53
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Well. I guess that's settled then
Definitely. And I'm glad you agree.
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Old 10-12-2021, 04:01 AM   #54
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Meanwhile, the OP is waiting for the day when there are no more fossil fuels and purists are pining for the good old days of REAL PVC vinyl rather than whatever late C21 substitute takes its place

Last edited by Uncle Robin; 10-12-2021 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 04:37 AM   #55
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Or in my case the justification is that it's never been digitised.

I have a small collection of my late father's jazz albums I lugged back from the Lebanon when my sister and I cleared his flat. They are mostly direct-to-disc recordings from obscure labels which have never been digitised.
You should before it further deteriorate.
The fact that we have this wonderful worldwide network and there is analog content that get lost, being it books, music, movies make me feel terrible
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Old 10-13-2021, 04:39 AM   #56
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Still true! The "newer" vinyls are touted to be heavy compared to the past vinyls, especially in the 1970's during the oil crunch where the recording companies started to use recycled vinyl. That's when I invested in a record clamp to 'flatten' any warped record.

RCA sold some SACDs that sounded nicer & fuller than the CDs of the same artist (Rubinstein) claiming that it was using the original masters where some had used a 3 microphone recording. Why the difference as both the SACD & the CD were digitals? The recording engineer and/or the producer wanted to create a certain sound to their tastes. I have a "producer's cut" recording where Emmy Lou Harris sounded from the front speakers while the guitar was coming from the back; does not make sense.
The RCA "Living Stereo" series of SACDs were classical music recordings that were recorded in 3 channel, left, center, right. For CDs you get two channel with the center being mixed equally in right and left. For SACD, you get the full 3.1 channel mix.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:44 AM   #57
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RCA ended about 1986. Thomson (France) bought the label. Various people sell various products under licenced use of the name.

SACD was first released in 1999, but hardly any content till 2002. Basically dead by 2007 because it was aimed at niche Audio CD refusniks and offered nothing more in quality compared to properly mastered CDs, and also MP3 downloads at much lower quality started to dominate by then.
Also very few players.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:46 AM   #58
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You should before it further deteriorate.
The fact that we have this wonderful worldwide network and there is analog content that get lost, being it books, music, movies make me feel terrible
Quite inexpensive gear can digitise analogue content now at professional quality. But not record or tape players with built-in USB!
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:50 AM   #59
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You should before it further deteriorate.
The fact that we have this wonderful worldwide network and there is analog content that get lost, being it books, music, movies make me feel terrible
Yes, well. The issue is the time, and I need to track down a version of Audacity that actually works.
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