So how is it done??

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was happy enough reading, for example, Microsoft's .lit format ebooks until the announcement that Microsoft was shutting down the DRM servers. At that point, I got very enthused about removing DRM from those ebooks and since then, removing DRM is part of how I manage any ebook purchase..

That's the same event that sparked my involvement with DRM removal.

I've since stopped removing DRM from any of my purchases. But that's because it's simply a waste of time for me to do so. I don't buy ebooks until I'm ready to read them, and I almost never re-read anything. If the formatting of an ebook is atrocious enough to distract me while reading (and my sensitivity to such 'atrocity' is pretty low), I return it and read something else. I just no longer have an interest in doing anything with my purchases other than reading them (immediately).

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

This warning is to everyone. Please stop announcing your intent to download pirated books on Mobileread. Now, or in the future. Buying a copy first does not lend you any moral or legal right to download a pirated copy, and certainly violates MR's rules not to advocate piracy. I find the desire to share ones intent to do so rather odd. If you wish to participate in such practices, please consider keeping it to yourself. Sharing your plans to utilize pirate sites will only get you censured (and possibly banned) on Mobileread.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sure. But someone is bound to cross the line into advocating before long. Never fails. I, myself, believe the topic to be talked to death. You're welcome to try, but it will inevitably (and quickly) devolve into irrelevant arguments and false claims of entitlement.

So it sounds to me like the only discussion allowed is that it (buying and downloading a pirate copy) is that it is immoral?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

So it sounds to me like the only discussion allowed is that it (buying and downloading a pirate copy) is that it is immoral?

The topic has been discussed to death and really does not need to be resurrected and beaten to death again.


Purchasing an ebook from a vendor does not grant you a license to download a pirated copy. To me, that makes downloading that pirated copy an immoral, illegal, unethical, illicit & etc. ad nauseum act.

Your opinion may be different but trying to change someone's mind is more than likely a thankless and unsuccessful task.

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.—Thomas Paine.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's the same event that sparked my involvement with DRM removal.

I've since stopped removing DRM from any of my purchases. But that's because it's simply a waste of time for me to do so. I don't buy ebooks until I'm ready to read them, and I almost never re-read anything. If the formatting of an ebook is atrocious enough to distract me while reading (and my sensitivity to such 'atrocity' is pretty low), I return it and read something else. I just no longer have an interest in doing anything with my purchases other than reading them (immediately).

I mostly remove it because I want to read the books on both a Kindle and a Pocketbook (previously a Kobo). I'm not going to buy a book twice because I use an epub reader and my partner uses a kindle reader

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I mostly remove it because I want to read the books on both a Kindle and a Pocketbook (previously a Kobo). I'm not going to buy a book twice because I use an epub reader and my partner uses a kindle reader

Makes perfect sense to me!

I don't share, nor do I use use eink devices. So reading DRMed content from just about any store works on any of my tablets or phone. If there was a need, I'd remove DRM with no remorse, but I just haven't had that need for a long time.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by John F

So it sounds to me like the only discussion allowed is that it (buying and downloading a pirate copy) is that it is immoral?

Not sure how you got that interpretation from what I wrote. I clearly said "sure," have at it. Then posted my opinion that it was pointless and bound to turn sour. But if you want to post an opinion on why you think (hypothetically) buying and downloading a pirate copy might be moral (without hinting that you do it, or suggesting it's OK for others to go out and do so)... knock yourself out. See how it goes.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The topic has been discussed to death and really does not need to be resurrected and beaten to death again.


...

And yet, you start discussing, yet again.

That's what I don't get about your (and DiapDealer). You say it doesn't need to be discussed, yet you start offering opinions.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Not sure how you got that interpretation from what I wrote. I clearly said "sure," have at it. Then posted my opinion that it was pointless and bound to turn sour. But if you want to post an opinion on why you think (hypothetically) buying and downloading a pirate copy might be moral (without hinting that you do it, or suggesting it's OK for others to to go out an do so)... knock yourself out. See how it goes.

Ok.

In my opinion, hypothetically, I don't see a moral problem on downloading a pirated version of an ebook if you have purchased a legitimate copy of the ebook. I don't do it; I wouldn't buy an ebook if I couldn't get it in a format I wanted. I am not suggesting it is OK for others to go out and do it.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

Ok.

In my opinion, hypothetically, I don't see a moral problem on downloading a pirated version of an ebook if you have purchased a legitimate copy of the ebook.

I don't see a problem with it either, but it isn't something I'd do myself. There's just no need, as long as DRM can be removed, and if it's no longer possible to remove the DRM, then I guess there won't be any pirate copies floating around either.

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by John F

In my opinion, hypothetically, I don't see a moral problem on downloading a pirated version of an ebook if you have purchased a legitimate copy of the ebook.

My opinion also.
If I have paid for a copy of an ebook that I can't use, where is the loss of downloading the same novel elsewhere? Should we be paying for two copies?

And I don't see where "Morality" fits into this.

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

then I guess there won't be any pirate copies floating around either.

I assume those inclined will end up OCR'ing pbooks.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Karellen

I assume those inclined will end up OCR'ing pbooks.

Probably, but the quality of those copies would be just awful in most cases.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I mostly remove it because I want to read the books on both a Kindle and a Pocketbook (previously a Kobo). I'm not going to buy a book twice because I use an epub reader and my partner uses a kindle reader

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Makes perfect sense to me!

I really don't want to get too far into the "beaten to death" bit, but buying a book from Amazon (or Kobo) and then removing DRM and converting it to the other format so it can be read on another device by another person is actually worse than buying a copy then downloading a pirate version for your single device.

Buying and then duplicating the copy to multiple devices violates the license and deprives the author of money from the second sale. It also allows reading both copies at the same time, which breaks the "treat it like a physical book" argument, where you can loan the book without loaning your entire library. Buying a copy and then downloading a pirate version to read on a single device gives the author exactly the amount of money that they should receive.

What you wrote could easily be changed to:
Buying a copy first does not lend you any moral or legal right to create and share a pirated copy (even within your own household), and certainly violates MR's rules not to advocate piracy. I find the desire to share ones intent to do so rather odd. If you wish to participate in such practices, please consider keeping it to yourself. Sharing your plans to create pirate copies will only get you censured (and possibly banned) on Mobileread.

I format-shift my purchased eBooks all the time, and I do technically create multiple copies and violate the license agreements, but there is never an instance where more than one copy can be read at the same time.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

I really don't want to get too far into the "beaten to death" bit, but buying a book from Amazon (or Kobo) and then removing DRM and converting it to the other format so it can be read on another device by another person is actually worse than buying a copy then downloading a pirate version for your single device.

Sure. In your opinion. And those vary. I have no beef with a bit of household sharing (whether it technically violates license or not). I DO have a beef with making commercial pirates money by clicking through their site so they get paid by their advertisers.

You're free to believe that sharing a copy with a partner/spouse is "actually worse" than handing money to commercial pirates, but I don't share that particular belief (though I don't have a partner or spouse to share ebooks with, so I don't participate in that form of casual piracy either) *shrug*

And for the record: I wasn't approving or disapproving of Sweatpea's practices. In a conversation about who does/doesn't, might/mightn't need to remove DRM, removing DRM in their situation made perfect logical sense to me. It didn't in my situation. Others can quibble over the moral ramifications of those choices if they like. My concern is preventing the encouragement (on Mobileread) of going to pirate sites to download free copyrighted books (or the uploading of their liberated ebooks to pirate sites).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

Buying and then duplicating the copy to multiple devices violates the license and deprives the author of money from the second sale. It also allows reading both copies at the same time, which breaks the "treat it like a physical book" argument, where you can loan the book without loaning your entire library. Buying a copy and then downloading a pirate version to read on a single device gives the author exactly the amount of money that they should receive.

I format-shift my purchased eBooks all the time, and I do technically create multiple copies and violate the license agreements, but there is never an instance where more than one copy can be read at the same time.

Oddly, while Amazon does seem to impose limits on how many devices/apps you can read an Amazon format ebook on, I haven't found the same with ePub format ebooks from multiple source. I do not use B&N since they are a US only company.

OTOH, I only remove DRM from ebooks for my use. I suppose, in theory, I could "read" an ebook on multiple apps and ereaders simultaneously even without needing to remove DRM since Adobe allows me to activate multiple devices and Kobo's apps and ereader are pre-activated for their DRM when syncing ebooks from Kobo's site.

Another oddity is that under the local laws, any ebook purchases I make are equally the property of my spouse (community property is so much fun). I actually bounced the idea off of one lawyer acquaintance and his response after a bit of research was that while it was unlikely that I would ever be taken to court for sharing an ebook with my spouse, it was likely that the court would rule that no copyright infringement/illegality had occurred. It gave him something to do while I was upgrading his office computers and networking though it did result in a discount on fee for the work I did.