Amazon Opens Search for Amazon HQ2

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

So, if NY would just increase corporate handouts enough, it could be just like Louisiana.

All Louisiana needs to do is raise the property taxes for regular residential property. They can double their taxes and still be below average nationwide. Blaming all problems on corporate property taxes is an easy way out.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

All Louisiana needs to do is raise the property taxes for regular residential property. They can double their taxes and still be below average nationwide. Blaming all problems on corporate property taxes is an easy way out.

Sure, raise the taxes on people, who make next to nothing, not the corporations, some of whom are paying taxes on less than 1% of their property. Why should the richest be exempt from paying their fair share? I've never understood the "let them eat cake" sentiment. Why do some people think corporations should be exempt from NORMAL obligations? And, if the tax rate is low for the people, it's also LOW for the corporations, and they're still exempt from paying it. Why?

[barryem]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I'm no fan of "AOC" but this wasn't all tax credits, unless a "grant" means something different than what I think it does. Amazon can afford to build their own place and pay the same taxes everyone else has to pay. They're one of the richest corporations in the world. Why should they be given an unfair advantage?

A large corporation moving in is a desirable thing to politicians so they get a lot of incentives. Cities compete to get them to move there. That's how things work. That's how they've always worked, at least during my lifetime. Maybe it's better in Utopia.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by rcentros

If I started a business there I would have to pay full property taxes and not expect the citizens of the town to foot the bill for ten years.

So start your business there with a few billion dollars and offer to provide a few thousand jobs. Then you'll get a break too.

No charge for the advice.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by rcentros

My point is that bribing a corporation to come to a city is supposed to benefit the residents of that city.

I think it's more true that it's supposed to help the politicians and some of the businesses. Sometimes it also helps residents but I don't think that's really part of the calculation. Of course it is part of the PR.

Big usually means powerful. The big 5 publishers pushed Amazon into accepting the agency model because they had the power. Pope Urban II began the crusades, because he had the power. Powerful people get their way. Powerful companies do as well. It's just the way things work among us silly humans.

Barry

[frahse]

Originally Posted by barryem

I think it's more true that it's supposed to help the politicians and some of the businesses. Sometimes it also helps residents but I don't think that's really part of the calculation. Of course it is part of the PR.

Big usually means powerful. The big 5 publishers pushed Amazon into accepting the agency model because they had the power. Pope Urban II began the crusades, because he had the power. Powerful people get their way. Powerful companies do as well. It's just the way things work among us silly humans.

Barry

And don't forget powerful "countries!"

[frahse]

Originally Posted by haertig

Hint: When trying to be sarcastic, include the sarcasm smilie in your post, otherwise people might misinterpret that and think you lack cognitive ability and comprehension skills.

It should have been pretty obvious that I was talking about hightailing it out of the new headquarters agreement and not hightailing it out of every job in the state. Don't you agree?

It will be interesting (and enlightening) to see if those "legacy" 5K jobs grow or fade into some dustbin past.

If I was Bezos, I would (reference Scripture Mathew 10:14) shake the dust from my feet, leave that place and not look back.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Sure, raise the taxes on people, who make next to nothing, not the corporations, some of whom are paying taxes on less than 1% of their property. Why should the richest be exempt from paying their fair share? I've never understood the "let them eat cake" sentiment. Why do some people think corporations should be exempt from NORMAL obligations? And, if the tax rate is low for the people, it's also LOW for the corporations, and they're still exempt from paying it. Why?

Really? You believe in double and triple taxation? Guess who is paying the bill once you force the corporations to pay full property tax? Hint: it won't come out of their profit. If they even decide to stick around.

I grew up in a failed socialistic experiment, it crashed horribly in the end. You draw your own conclusions and see if you want to go that route. Unfortunately we cannot discuss this any further.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by barryem

A large corporation moving in is a desirable thing to politicians so they get a lot of incentives. Cities compete to get them to move there. That's how things work. That's how they've always worked, at least during my lifetime. Maybe it's better in Utopia.

You're not going to find corporations being arbitrarily forgiven up to 99% of their property taxes anywhere else in the country. That's just insane. The problem with Louisiana is that it's not the cities that are giving these incredible deals to corporations, it's a state commission. But it's the local cities who AREN'T getting the property tax. I wonder how much these commissioners earn under the table? (Utopia for them, maybe.)

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Really? You believe in double and triple taxation? Guess who is paying the bill once you force the corporations to pay full property tax? Hint: it won't come out of their profit. If they even decide to stick around.

Sorry, but property tax is a very small part of these corporations' expenses (even if they paid for their fair share). It's huge for the local communities, however. And why should LOCAL citizens suffer for a nationwide corporation's benefit?

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I grew up in a failed socialistic experiment, it crashed horribly in the end. You draw your own conclusions and see if you want to go that route. Unfortunately we cannot discuss this any further.

How is requiring a corporation to pay the same property tax rate EVERYONE ELSE PAYS socialism? I would think that the corporations who are on corporate welfare and aren't paying their fair share of the local property taxes would be the socialists, not the other way around. Socialists are those who enjoy benefits they didn't earn ... who DON'T pay property taxes (yet still uses community services) in this case? Why does everyone knee-jerk assume that corporations should be exempt from what others have to pay? Makes no sense at all. In free enterprise you EARN your way, you don't expect preferential treatment and no property tax (or other types of corporate welfare).

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by rcentros

You're not going to find corporations being arbitrarily forgiven up to 99% of their property taxes anywhere else in the country. That's just insane. The problem with Louisiana is that it's not the cities that are giving these incredible deals to corporations, it's a state commission. But it's the local cities who AREN'T getting the property tax. I wonder how much these commissioners earn under the table? (Utopia for them, maybe.)

I am not saying that it is right or fair. The exemptions up to 99.99% are quite excessive. It is hard to tell with the missing cost analysis. Other states don't have the problem to the same extend. The combination of low taxes and big exemptions does the trick. Or put another way: if you depend on no exemptions to offset the lower taxes, what do the rural areas do that don't have a mega corp in their backyard?

[issybird]

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[ZodWallop]

I listen to a New York Times podcast called The Daily. Today's episode is called How New York Lost Amazon.

Not sure there's much new info here for most of us. But it is a nice, detailed analysis of what happened. Listen here. 26 minutes.

[tubemonkey]

Amazon in National Landing

National Landing encompasses Crystal City, other parts of Arlington, Alexandria, and Potomac Yard.

Our investment plan in National Landing

The average wage of new jobs at Amazon’s headquarters at National Landing will be over $150,000 annually.

More than half of the jobs will be in engineering, but there will be a wide range of other jobs, too. These will include sales, accounting and other office jobs. The project will also create thousands of jobs in construction and building services.

• As we build our new headquarters, Amazon will invest approximately 2.5 billion dollars over the coming years and occupy between 4- and 8-million square feet of energy efficient office space.
  
• In addition to our direct hiring and investment, the construction and ongoing operation of this headquarters will create tens of thousands of additional jobs and tens of billions of dollars in additional investment.
  
• As a result of Amazon’s investment and job creation, an estimated incremental tax revenue of $3.2 billion is anticipated over the next 20 years.
  
• Over the next decade, this project should generate more than $340 million in annual tax revenue for the Commonwealth.
  
• The community and Amazon employees will benefit from the Commonwealth investing more than $200 million in infrastructure in the neighborhood, including Metro improvements, new access to Reagan National Airport and a better Route 1 experience.

[cfrizz]

I think this will work a lot better than NY.