Hacks Amazon Kindle Hack: Read DRM-protected Mobipocket content

[Harpgliss]

Hi,

The justifications in this thread and other similar threads is bewildering, to me anyway.

I always found that if something has features you don't like, you don't buy it.

The DRM is part of what is being bought and of you do not agree, do not buy it.

I know there will be disagreements and justifications but the bottom line is that when you circumvent the DRM and make the tools public, you make the "piracy" you all say you are against, all that more likely to happen.

Someone above said to a poster to quote specific posts, well that is fine but when it is all over the site, it is not easy to quote one posts or a few to make a point.

The ebook readers have a DRM feature there to lessen the potential of piracy, if you circumvent it, you invite piracy.

Rather simple concept and not all the justifications here change it.

You buy a book for a specific device and this is the agreement you enter into when you make the purchase, unless I missed something.

When you break the DRM, then move that book to another device it was not bought for, you are in violation of the contract you entered into and this is an act of piracy.

I had a difficult time deciding whether I wanted to post this but the more justifications I have read in this thread and others, I get really angry that the majority of members here feel good and righteous with busting DRM circumventing the agreement they made when these books were purchased.

This post was not made to spur any sort of discussion but to register my anger and disappointment that this is permitted and supported here.

When I read the term "filthy pirate" here, my definition and who I put in this category is different and probably is more inclusive than most members here and I find this something that truly embarrasses me.

For a number of years, I have been very proud to be a member of this site but over time, this pride has turned to embarrassment with this sites policies on DRM circumvention.

Not trying to change things here as I see this is a futile gesture but more to register my feelings on the subject.

My logins here have been sparse of late and I see myself being less of a visitor and participant here as by being a visitor and/or a participant here, I become someone who condones something I do not, in my heart.

My post here is not directed to a person but more to the policies and acceptance of DRM circumvention by the community at large.

To Alex, You are responsible for expanding my usage of my pda through the mobile links you originally built this site on and I owe you tremendous "Thanks" for this.

Thank you and good luck on all you do in life.

David

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I don't see the inputting of a non-Kindle document (DRM'd or not) that you have purchased, into the Kindle that you also own, as wrong. If it is your purchased and legal document, "fair use" allows you to convert it to another format (which is essentially what you're doing when you're breaking the DRM) to use it in another device that you own. And Amazon's TOS does not disallow your inputting non-Amazon documents into the Kindle. "Fair use" is duly covered.

:

Seriously. Thank you for injecting this sanity. "Fair Use" doctrine is about the consumer; copyright is about the producer. It's as simple as that.

Bless you

[tsgreer]

Originally Posted by mrkai

....In the Apple/Real instance Real figured out how to pretty much do what's being done here: get stuff bought from there store onto apple's device..while preserving the locks by transmogrifying them.A CLEAR consumer benefit...a win-win. Anyone here remember this?

Real was told to cut it out or head to court because this was in violation of the DMCA, but more telling was that it revealed how the vendor (in this case, Apple) viewed DRM as not simply a copy control mechanism, but a supply chain one. As apple wasn't the content originator their interests lay in controlling and constraining the supply chain for "Premium" digital music..

I will say that I have pretty much disagreed with your opinions on every single post you have submitted.

BUT you have a good point with this example, I do remember this now that you mention it...

Very interesting.

[Alisa]

If it's a Mobipocket DRM file and the Mobipocket reader will authorize the PID then I don't see what rule's been broken here. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon changes it so the Mobipocket reader won't accept that PID later, though.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Harpgliss

For a number of years, I have been very proud to be a member of this site but over time, this pride has turned to embarrassment with this sites policies on DRM circumvention.

Not trying to change things here as I see this is a futile gesture but more to register my feelings on the subject.

My logins here have been sparse of late and I see myself being less of a visitor and participant here as by being a visitor and/or a participant here, I become someone who condones something I do not, in my heart.

My post here is not directed to a person but more to the policies and acceptance of DRM circumvention by the community at large.

To Alex, You are responsible for expanding my usage of my pda through the mobile links you originally built this site on and I owe you tremendous "Thanks" for this.

Thank you and good luck on all you do in life.

David

I started thispost intending to debate the points you made, but everything kept sounding like justifications for my actions. So, all I can say is that I'm sorry we do not see eye to eye.

I wish you well.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by Alisa

If it's a Mobipocket DRM file and the Mobipocket reader will authorize the PID then I don't see what rule's been broken here. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon changes it so the Mobipocket reader won't accept that PID later, though.

I agree that I don't understand what the problem is. You've legally purchased the book with DRM and you aren't removing the DRM. You're just enabling the Kindle to read what you've legally purchased. I don't understand USA antitrust laws but if Amazon was to purposely change the Mobipocket servers to not allow this it would seem to my naive understanding that they would be giving strong ammunition to a company like Fictionwise to lobby for an investigation.

They'd probably upgrade the servers with new features and accidentally break it because it wasn't in their test plan.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Barcey

I agree that I don't understand what the problem is. You've legally purchased the book with DRM and you aren't removing the DRM. You're just enabling the Kindle to read what you've legally purchased. I don't understand USA antitrust laws but if Amazon was to purposely change the Mobipocket servers to not allow this it would seem to my naive understanding that they would be giving strong ammunition to a company like Fictionwise to lobby for an investigation.

They'd probably upgrade the servers with new features and accidentally break it because it wasn't in their test plan.

I wonder if they'd be covered by the fact that they always claimed they didn't support Mobipocket DRM.

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by Barcey

I agree that I don't understand what the problem is. You've legally purchased the book with DRM and you aren't removing the DRM. You're just enabling the Kindle to read what you've legally purchased.

DRM isn't just strictly what we used to call "copy protection" in the days of yore, and I think a lot of people miss that distinction, because its kind of like the frog/slow/simmer/cook thing. Its been sneaking up on folks for awhile. People sort of make them the same in their mind, but DRM systems go beyond simple copy protection in that they also add *usage restrictions* as well.

Here is an example of digital rights management:

You go to Japan and buy Wii Fit for the Wii. You bring it back to the USA, but it will not play. You own the Wii, the copy of Wii Fit and the Balance board.

In the USA, it is against the law to:

1. Copy the Wii Disc (it is heavily encrpyted) and change the region bit on the image to USA and burn it back to a DVD-R

2. Modify the Wii you purchased and Own to play the JPN Wii Fit game you bought in japan.

3. Anything the Manufacture did not intend the system to be used for that involves changing any copyrighted code and/or/to circumvent any restraints on the usage in any way

Our mobi -> awz example here is a parallel to this one. You bought the book, you own the Kindle. The book has been constrained from working on the kindle. You aren't allowed to cirumvent these constraints without violating a very very stupid US law.

[silvania]

If amazon wants to they can very easily stop this. They just change the mobi drm server to recognize a kindle PID and refuse to serve it to any other ebookstore besides the kindle store. Done. This could be done in less than one day, easily.

The fact that it is not done tells you something.

[tklaus]

Originally Posted by silvania

If amazon wants to they can very easily stop this. They just change the mobi drm server to recognize a kindle PID and refuse to serve it to any other ebookstore besides the kindle store. Done. This could be done in less than one day, easily.

The fact that it is not done tells you something.

That, plus the fact that Amazon's own freely available software (MobiPocket Reader), will also tell you your Kindle's PID. Given that, it seems to me that this whole discussion about whether reverse engineering the Kindle PID is wrong is pretty moot?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jharker

Let's take these on:

• #1 may be true; it depends on exactly what needs to be done to learn the Kindle's DRM and what your definition of "reverse engineering" is.
• #2 is obviously false, because it is too general. Amazon provides services to allow you to put your own documents (whatever they may be) on the Kindle.
• #3, which is more specific than #2, may be true. Amazon might object to you buying books from someone else and then reading them on the Kindle.

Of course, what mrkai forgets is that Amazon OWNS Mobipocket.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by silvania

If amazon wants to they can very easily stop this. They just change the mobi drm server to recognize a kindle PID and refuse to serve it to any other ebookstore besides the kindle store. Done. This could be done in less than one day, easily.

The fact that it is not done tells you something.

It might tell us something, though not a real lot. It might tell us:

- Amazon are not monitoring its affect

- Amazon are monitoring its affect to see if it's affecting booksales

- Amazon are researching how best (in all respects) to disable it

- Amazon see it as an enhancement of the device and have no intention to do anything about it

- something else?

So, the "something" we are being "told" is re really some potential things that we are not being told, and, really, nothing (of use). It could be "as yet" or it could be "not aware" or it could be "no intention". Thus, if they could stop this it will be a cause for concern for some. The fact that they haven't doesn't tell us much without explicit advice from them.

Cheers,
Marc

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Alisa

If it's a Mobipocket DRM file and the Mobipocket reader will authorize the PID then I don't see what rule's been broken here. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon changes it so the Mobipocket reader won't accept that PID later, though.

But remember, you still have to MODIFY the file to get it to be read on the Kindle. So technically, you are doing more then just giving some shop a PID.

[azog]

Originally Posted by tklaus

That, plus the fact that Amazon's own freely available software (MobiPocket Reader), will also tell you your Kindle's PID. Given that, it seems to me that this whole discussion about whether reverse engineering the Kindle PID is wrong is pretty moot?

Are you sure about that? I just installed Mobipcoket Reader 6.2 Build 594 (beta), and it sees my Kindle only as a mass-storage device, for which I can get no information (i.e., there is no Properties button which would normally show me the PID) and it doesn't recognize any of the content (Amazon or DRM-free), but I suspect that's due to the AZW filename extension.

[tklaus]

Originally Posted by azog

Are you sure about that? I just installed Mobipcoket Reader 6.2 Build 594 (beta), and it sees my Kindle only as a mass-storage device, for which I can get no information (i.e., there is no Properties button which would normally show me the PID) and it doesn't recognize any of the content (Amazon or DRM-free), but I suspect that's due to the AZW filename extension.

I'm not sure which version I have (downloaded a couple of weeks ago), but it does indeed show my Kindle PID, and recognizes the device as 'Amazon Kindle'. I also verified that it matches the PID generated by Igor's script. It doesn't show all of the content on my Kindle, except for non-DRMed stuff that was synched there by Reader.