LibriVox books at Audible

[issybird]

I'm copying over a post by Catlady/skinmaan in the Deals forum:

Originally Posted by skinmaan

Point well-made and thanks for informing the reader. I did some checking and if you look at the publisher's catalog on Audible (SAGA Egmont) it seems to be made up of classics (likely from Librivox) and foreign language publications.

I ran across the following list at the Goodreads Audiobook group and I thought it might be of interest:

A heads up on this particular company, SAGA Egmont, which is publishing quite a few classics. They are taking the recordings from LibriVox.org and repackaging them as new. Many people who have recorded for LibriVox (myself included) are very unhappy about this. Audible has been notified that these are LibriVox recordings -- which they have removed in the past when notified of this -- but lately they've been letting them slide through.

It's certainly true that our LibriVox recordings are released into the Public Domain which means that we have no control or legal ownership of them. However, most of us are very unhappy that unscrupulous 'publishers' are duping people into buying recordings that were made for free for the public. The narrator of this book, Elizabeth Klett, who ublished a huge amount of solos on LibriVox before launching a career as a professional, is not receiving any compensation for her recording being used this way.

For anyone who is interested, another company to watch for this type of practice is called 'Paperless.' They have quite a few LibriVox recordings on Audible for sale, too. Downpour, which is owned by Blackstone, had one of my LibriVox solos for sale on their site from Paperless. I complained to Downpour and they removed the book.

And from the same poster:

However, these publishers selling them on Audible have stripped all mention of LibriVox and 'the public domain' from the recordings. They are passing them off as their own. A number of narrators, including myself, got our start on LibriVox by volunteering and then gradually transitioned to recording professionally. In most cases, we've upgraded our equipment, our recordings areas, taken classes, etc. These publishers are sticking our earlier and, in some cases, less polished recordings up for sale next to our 'professional' ones. Most of us don't like that, either.

[Catlady]

SAGA Egmont isn't the only one. I suggest that for any recordings of public domain classics from unfamiliar publishers, it would be wise to check the LibriVox site to see if that's where the recording originated.

I wouldn't mind paying for some recordings through Audible if the narrator and/or LibriVox got a cut. But paying some pseudo publisher who did no work is outrageous.

[AnemicOak]

http://saga-books.com/english/

The vision of Saga is to revive great works by great authors to the market by digitizing the written word into digital formats such as eBooks and audio books.

Especially easy if they just repackage other peoples work.


EDIT, see post below. It doesn't appear that LibriVox publishes any kind of guidelines on how their recordings may be used? Just because the books are PD and the recordings are made available for free doesn't mean that they can't have some say in what is done with the recordings (such as repackaging and selling them).

[sun surfer]

Thanks for the warning. I'm glad it wasn't me who pointed this out though, or I'd have probably had someone or another show up to try to berate me for putting down these hardworking people who sacrifice their time to put up LibriVox recordings for Audible members.

[issybird]

I think it's reprehensible for Audible to profit from these sales. I also feel for those narrators whose professional status is compromised by juxtaposition with their amateur output.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by issybird

I think it's reprehensible for Audible to profit from these sales. I also feel for those narrators whose professional status is compromised by juxtaposition with their amateur output.

It's kinda shady, but the narrators did agree to it when they did recording for LibriVox. I get where they're coming from and as a customer I might feel duped if I bought something like this and could have gotten the same thing free, but it appears the "publisher" is following LibriVox's own guidelines. Do the narrator's have a right to try and get the publishers editions pulled when the recordings are being used in accordance with the "rules"? I'm kind of surprised that Audible doesn't have a policy thought that LibriVox recordings aren't acceptable, just because of the issues with the number of PD recordings already out there from various pubs and the questionable quality of some LibriVox material.



https://librivox.org/pages/public-domain/

LibriVox records only texts that are in the public domain (in the USA – see below for why), and all our recordings are public domain (definitely in the USA, and maybe in your country as well, see below). This means anyone can use all our recordings however they wish (even to sell them).

Practicalities
The practical implications of our copyright policies are:

• if you record for LibriVox, all your recordings will be donated to the public domain
• you may do whatever you like with our recordings – you don’t need permission
• in general, we can only record texts published before 1923
• we cannot record texts that are still under copyright in the USA, but public domain in another country
• all our recordings are public domain in the USA, but not necessarily in other countries
• if you are outside the USA, we recommend that you check the copyright status of the work in your country before downloading our recording of it

What Can Other People Do with LibriVox Recordings

LibriVox recordings are in the public domain, which means people can do anything they like with them. Mostly this just means people can listen to them for free. But it also means they can: sell them (for instance on ebay), broadcast them, put them in commercials, play them at political rallies, chop them up, remix them, make music recordings of them. The recordings are free, and there is no need to credit LibriVox, although of course we much prefer if you do credit us (with a link to our site).

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

It doesn't appear that LibriVox publishes any kind of guidelines on how their recordings may be used? Just because the books are PD and the recordings are made available for free doesn't mean that they can't have some say in what is done with the recordings (such as repackaging and selling them).

I guess it's the same legally as people using the Project Gutenberg texts and repackaging them. But it seems different with recordings because of the involvement of narrators. It may be legal to sell the recordings but it's unethical.

I wonder if the old-time radio recordings that Audible sells are repackaged from the free versions at the Internet Archive.

Originally Posted by issybird

I think it's reprehensible for Audible to profit from these sales. I also feel for those narrators whose professional status is compromised by juxtaposition with their amateur output.

Yes. And Audible/Amazon have a number of these books as Whispersync pairs too, which gives the recording more exposure and credibility.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Catlady

It may be legal to sell the recordings but it's unethical.

Even if LibriVox explicitly states that it's okay and the narrators agree to it when they participate? LibriVox could have easily licensed the recordings as free to download/listen to, but not repackage in any way instead of how they've done it or required acknowledgement so people know where the recordings came from and aren't duped into buying something they could have downloaded for free.

They've been being sold on CD's for years the only thing different here is it's a download. Wouldn't be surprised it downloads have been sold for years too, just not necessarily by Audible or Downpour.

[issybird]

Oh, I know it's legal. But just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's not a poor choice.

There's something off-putting about selling something people could get for free. And even as Audible is undermining the professional careers of those who've made the transition, they're also undermining the perceived quality of their own offerings. Is it really worth the money Audible makes on these books to do something a portion of its clientele finds distasteful,?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by issybird

And even as Audible is undermining the professional careers of those who've made the transition, they're also undermining the perceived quality of their own offerings. Is it really worth the money Audible makes on these books to do something a portion of its clientele finds distasteful,?

Didn't say they should allow it. Like I said I'm kind of surprised that Audible doesn't have some policy that specifically says no LibriVox stuff. Kind of how Amazon's gotten picky about PD eBooks. That said do we even know if Audible is aware of this happening and has there been any actual official response?

[AnemicOak]

Here's Audible's policy for Public Domain in conjunction with ACX. No way of know what/if the policy is when it comes to more traditional publishers.

Can I upload audio for a book that is Public Domain, or out of copyright?

Books that fall under Public Domain do not typically make good candidates for audiobooks; however, the only time we make an exception for Public Domain works is if your titles have met the following conditions:

In order to claim the rights to a public domain work, you must first make sure that it is, indeed, in the public domain.

You must have created your own version of the title by adding your own original content to it (i.e.; a historical introduction or fictionalized content).

You must have put your original version up for sale on Amazon.com in the books section. Please do not claim the rights to any other person’s public domain product.

You must have hired a narrator outside of ACX or narrated the book yourself. In such a case, you are welcome to upload the completed audiobook using our DIY (Do-It-Yourself) option.

[Tarana]

Edit: the following 11 posts were copied over from the Audiobook Deals forum to further the discussion here. tm


Here are some specials on Audible (US). $0.66 each. I did not research this. Someone on another board did, but I've already bought 3 of them. They are all 2019 releases.

Mark Twain - Complete Novels (58 hours and 33 minutes)
Click Here

Napoleon Hill - The Law of Success (23 hours and 56 minutes)
Click Here

G.K. Chesterton - The Complete Father Brown Collection (Run Time: 41 hours and 28 minutes)
Click Here

Jane Austen - Sense and Sensibility (12 hours)
Click Here

Jane Austen - Emma (15 hours and 53 minutes)
Click Here

Jane Austen - Mansfield Park (16 hours and 13 minutes)
Click Here

edited to add: Someone posted that these might be originally Librivox recordings, hence their low price. However, I don't see these narrators on the lists there. Publisher is Page2Page.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Tarana

Here are some specials on Audible (US). $0.66 each. I did not research this. Someone on another board did, but I've already bought 3 of them. They are all 2019 releases.

> snip <

edited to add: Someone posted that these might be originally Librovox recordings, hence their low price. However, I don't see these narrators on the lists there. Publisher is Page2Page.

Thanks - $0.66 is member pricing; non-members pay $0.94. This publisher has 42 books on Audible and they all appear to be the same price: $0.66/$0.94.

I don't know anything about this publisher, so I'm going to research them.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Thanks - $0.66 is member pricing; non-members pay $0.94. This publisher has 42 books on Audible and they all appear to be the same price: $0.66/$0.94.

I don't know anything about this publisher, so I'm going to research them.

For less than a buck a pop, I could be interested in the Father Brown and the Twain. And it's true, my loss would be limited. Just the same, it seems to fall under either or both the categories of, "Too Good to be True" and "Buyer Beware" and I hate to reward a cynical seller with my respective bucks if that's the game they're playing. So I'll be very interested to see what you find.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by issybird

For less than a buck a pop, I could be interested in the Father Brown and the Twain. And it's true, my loss would be limited. Just the same, it seems to fall under either or both the categories of, "Too Good to be True" and "Buyer Beware" and I hate to reward a cynical seller with my respective bucks if that's the game they're playing. So I'll be very interested to see what you find.

Looks like the same books are also at estories, with similar pricing.

I spot checked a few to see if they were LibriVox recordings; they're not.