MobileRead Discussion/Suggestion Thread

[Dazrin]

I don't think we had any non-fiction nominations last year for this same category though. Probably just a different group of people available and a weird/subdued nomination period to go with it. We only have 5 books fully nominated and I very much considered NOT thirding the last two of those since I really don't have any interest in them. Three books seemed like too short of a list for the vote though.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple categories go even if it isn't this one. Award winners sounds good in theory but I don't know that it has been great in practice. PCML and Classics have a lot of overlap as well.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple categories go even if it isn't this one. Award winners sounds good in theory but I don't know that it has been great in practice. PCML and Classics have a lot of overlap as well.

I think a specific category works better than free-for-all. Award winners presents the same problem; there are so many awards that it turns into essentially free-for-all also.

I think that while there's overlap with PCML and classics, ideally PCML serves a different purpose, to select a highly readable book in the public domain that's not a classic (and, of course, is free). I think our PCML choice this year, Queen Lucia, was our best discussion so far. Unfortunately, while price doesn't seem to get a lot of consideration during the nomination process, I think it's quite significant when it comes to participation.

[WT Sharpe]

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

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[issybird]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

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Tom, I think any new method has to include a huge dollop of what's easiest for you.

I have no objection to this, but a slight concern that we'd end up with a slate that was less balanced. If nothing else, if the most popular categories were weighted heavily toward the beginning of the year, participation (already parlous) might drop off significantly as we got to the more esoteric categories.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

We only have 5 books fully nominated and I very much considered NOT thirding the last two of those since I really don't have any interest in them. Three books seemed like too short of a list for the vote though.

Specifically in the case of those two books, they were going to make the vote even if you didn't third them.

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

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Currently I'm more of a bystander here, but I think that's more work on your part. However, if you're okay with the extra monthly work... then I think it's an excellent idea! It allows those actually around at that time to pick the next category they want to use and it might encourage more participation.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

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I'm not going to worry about the work -- you're your own best judge of what you want to take on. But I do have some concerns about front-loading of the categories. Right now we end up with the categories spread out across the year, but doing it this way might well lead to having less appealing categories lumped towards the end of the year.

Originally Posted by issybird

I think that while there's overlap with PCML and classics, ideally PCML serves a different purpose, to select a highly readable book in the public domain that's not a classic (and, of course, is free). I think our PCML choice this year, Queen Lucia, was our best discussion so far. Unfortunately, while price doesn't seem to get a lot of consideration during the nomination process, I think it's quite significant when it comes to participation.

I have a similar concern about costs, and it's one reason I make sure to provide actual cost figures for some of the available sources when I nominate books. Just as I provide page counts, since experience tells me that 600 page books don't get read by as many people as 200 page books. Some of us are willing to take on a book we might otherwise skip if it's both:

• Free (or quite inexpensive)
• Short

Overall, I wasn't strongly suggesting a change to categories or methods, just wanting to open the discussion based on what I saw this month.

[JSWolf]

When I nominate, I go see if it's available at Overdrive and hope the ait list is not too long for those who can get it.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

The main going points for this in my view are that it would mean that there is something always happening rather than a 3 week lull every month after a book is selected and that we have a chance to nominate a category we are excited about now rather than try to project years ahead.

Downsides, as mentioned, are possible front-loading of categories and extra work for you. But as sun surfer said, you know what you can handle better than any of us would.

[John F]

From the voting thread:

If The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle wins, I expect everyone who voted for it to read it and participate in the discussion thread.

...

I do object to anyone motivating or voting for a book and then not participating in the discussion. ...

...

So please do not vote if you do not plan on participating. Even if you put it on hold at Overdrive and may or may not get it in time, don't vote unless you 100% ae going to participate.

...

I suggest that we have a poll, and if the poll shows that this is a discussion book club, than there is a blurb somewhere saying so.

I dropped out of the club to satisfy the discussion members. But I am going to join back in, and will seldom join the discussions. I went back a couple of months, and it appears to me that there is an equal number of people who do not participate in the discussion thread.

[John F]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What if next year we have two nominations and two votes every month? In addition to the book nomination and poll, we could have a nomination and vote for the next month's category. The only rule would be that a category that has already been used that year can't be used again until February. We could still reserve January for second chance vote.

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I'm fine with this. I do prefer to have everything decided up-front, but either works for me.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

I suggest that we have a poll, and if the poll shows that this is a discussion book club, than there is a blurb somewhere saying so.

I dropped out of the club to satisfy the discussion members. But I am going to join back in, and will seldom join the discussions. I went back a couple of months, and it appears to me that there is an equal number of people who do not participate in the discussion thread.

I am honestly puzzled by this. What other kind of book club is there than a "discussion book club"? Anything else is just an opinion poll and not worth Tom's time or anyone else's, for that matter.

We've been around this block many times. I agree that there's no issue in non-participants nominating books; the more nominations, the better. It brings books to the attention of the membership and it gets sorted in the voting. But ultimately, a book club is not a performance, but if no one shows up for the discussion, is it anything at all.

I also understand that some, I hope many, read the book and don't post. But I'm increasingly frustrated that the non-posters can determine the choice, especially when it negatively affects the quality of the discussion.

Right now, Murakami is in the lead. As I said in one of the threads, the club has already had a Murakami selection and it seems a shame, with all the authors out there, to go for a repeat. But far worse is that the first discussion was a total non-starter; there were only two posts about the book and I don't see why this month would be different Really, what's the point? Is there some satisfaction for the non-participants in "winning" the poll and the discussion or absence thereof is immaterial?

But what about those who actually like to talk about books, but find that month after month the selection is lacklustre and at least in part because of the votes of the non-participants? Or who don't mind the choice necessarily, but show up and no one else is there because the other talkers didn't care for it? You can't have a discussion in a void.

[issybird]

Entirely different subject matter, hence a separate post.

I'd like to bring this back around to what would get more people involved in the discussion every month? Can we brainstorm?

Charlie along others has cited length and price and those are obvious factors. I'd like to think anyone who is inclined to participate would be willing at least to try a book that's reasonably short and cheap. Free is always best, but I don't think we can go the pd route every month! (I personally wouldn't mind. ) But perhaps we need to pin down just how much people are willing to spend, not to limit a choice because there are usually options, but just as a factor in suggesting a book?

I know Jon has suggested a longer lead time for starting a discussion, to help with getting books from OverDrive; should we consider that?

Can we try to think outside the box here? Maybe we need to throw out everything in terms of categories and slates? I'd like to see people individually saying what it would take for them to discuss a book each month or most months.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Entirely different subject matter, hence a separate post.

I'd like to bring this back around to what would get more people involved in the discussion every month? Can we brainstorm?

Charlie along others has cited length and price and those are obvious factors. I'd like to think anyone who is inclined to participate would be willing at least to try a book that's reasonably short and cheap. Free is always best, but I don't think we can go the pd route every month! (I personally wouldn't mind. ) But perhaps we need to pin down just how much people are willing to spend, not to limit a choice because there are usually options, but just as a factor in suggesting a book?

I know Jon has suggested a longer lead time for starting a discussion, to help with getting books from OverDrive; should we consider that?

Can we try to think outside the box here? Maybe we need to throw out everything in terms of categories and slates? I'd like to see people individually saying what it would take for them to discuss a book each month or most months.

I suggested we go for the noms/votes a full month ahead. That way there is more time to maybe get the book from Overdrive or save up to buy it. Plus, if we do have large books we can have more time to read. As it stands, even if I wanted The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle to win, I don't have the time to read it. But I'd have more time to read it if I had more time.

I also agree that cost can be a turn-off. I also can see some voting for a book they want to read and then find out the only way it can be gotten is to pay for it and it could turn out to be more expensive.

I'm all for trying something different to see how it goes.

[John F]

Originally Posted by issybird

I am honestly puzzled by this. What other kind of book club is there than a "discussion book club"? Anything else is just an opinion poll and not worth Tom's time or anyone else's, for that matter.

We've been around this block many times. I agree that there's no issue in non-participants nominating books; the more nominations, the better. It brings books to the attention of the membership and it gets sorted in the voting. But ultimately, a book club is not a performance, but if no one shows up for the discussion, is it anything at all.

I also understand that some, I hope many, read the book and don't post. But I'm increasingly frustrated that the non-posters can determine the choice, especially when it negatively affects the quality of the discussion.

Right now, Murakami is in the lead. As I said in one of the threads, the club has already had a Murakami selection and it seems a shame, with all the authors out there, to go for a repeat. But far worse is that the first discussion was a total non-starter; there were only two posts about the book and I don't see why this month would be different Really, what's the point? Is there some satisfaction for the non-participants in "winning" the poll and the discussion or absence thereof is immaterial?

But what about those who actually like to talk about books, but find that month after month the selection is lacklustre and at least in part because of the votes of the non-participants? Or who don't mind the choice necessarily, but show up and no one else is there because the other talkers didn't care for it? You can't have a discussion in a void.

We've gone back and forth on this before, so I am not really looking for a debate; I don't think we are going to change anyone minds. I was hoping we could have a poll, instead of "I'm right, your wrong, I can't understand" back and forth, to see where the community stands.

We split off the literary club, why not split off a discussion only group where you could tightly control who participates?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

We've gone back and forth on this before, so I am not really looking for a debate; I don't think we are going to change anyone minds. I was hoping we could have a poll, instead of "I'm right, your wrong, I can't understand" back and forth, to see where the community stands.

We split off the literary club, why not split off a discussion only group where you could tightly control who participates?

That's a loaded comment; whoever wants to tightly control who participates? Participation is open to all and eagerly sought, but the key word is participate. I personally wish that those who won't participate be gracious enough not to try to impose their will on those who do, but be willing to follow along on whatever book the actives select. If they are gong to follow along, I still think they'd like a more active discussion, and if they're not involved even to that extent, why the heck vote at all? Sheer spoilerism?