'Clean' Sci Fi, Fantasy, or Classic Recommendations

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't get the big deal about Small Gods. Discworld is an excellent series.
[...]
Besides, Narnia was mentioned and it's not a good fit.

No argument about Discworld being excellent. The argument is about recommending them to someone that does not want to see their religion criticised, and does not want to read about magic unless it's portrayed as evil. Any judgement I may hold concerning those objectives is best reserved for the P&R subforum, but the Discworld series is not a reliable place to fulfil them. (I guess we might argue that Christianity is never explicitly criticised in the series because it does not exist by that name on this fantasy world, but it would be an ignorant reader who did not recognise the references. Magic is portrayed as something tricky, and perhaps best avoided, but not intrinsically evil. And for anyone not familiar with Pratchett's works, don't get me wrong, it's not like Pratchett singled out religion. It was open season on religion, science, government, and pretty much everything else. The absurdities of our existence gave him an endless source to choose from.)

Lewis's Narnia series and the Cosmic Trilogy are interesting cases as regards this discussion, but I can't see any way to discuss them properly outside the P&R subforum. I liked them both as stories in their own right, but you'd have to be quite ignorant of Christianity to miss that aspect of them, and if you're a devout Christian you are going to perceive these a little differently to other readers - especially if you're also aware of Lewis's non-fiction writing.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't get the big deal about Small Gods. Discworld is an excellent series.

As for Wayfarers, I've read the first two books and it does fit. No sex, no magic, good characters.

His Dark Materials is a stretch, but I think overall it can fit.

Besides, Narnia was mentioned and it's not a good fit.

Discworld is an excellent series but it doesn't fit with OP's request with regards to magic and Small Gods is definitely critical of religion although it doesn't specifically call out Christianity. Not a good fit.

Narnia was mentioned before we got the clarification about what OP meant and OP specifically says it doesn't work. His Dark Materials is specifically anti-Christianity / pro-atheism, how does that fit in any way?

Originally Posted by drofgnal

Another one to mention is the Wizard of Earthsea series by Ursala Le Guin. I've not read all of it but the first book was 'clean'.

I mentioned Earthsea before we got the clarification about magic; after the clarification I don't think it fits. Great series, one of my favorites, but it doesn't fit the request. About half the first book is about the main character becoming a wizard, how does that vilify magic?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by gmw

No argument about Discworld being excellent. The argument is about recommending them to someone that does not want to see their religion criticised, and does not want to read about magic unless it's portrayed as evil. Any judgement I may hold concerning those objectives is best reserved for the P&R subforum, but the Discworld series is not a reliable place to fulfil them. (I guess we might argue that Christianity is never explicitly criticised in the series because it does not exist by that name on this fantasy world, but it would be an ignorant reader who did not recognise the references. Magic is portrayed as something tricky, and perhaps best avoided, but not intrinsically evil. And for anyone not familiar with Pratchett's works, don't get me wrong, it's not like Pratchett singled out religion. It was open season on religion, science, government, and pretty much everything else. The absurdities of our existence gave him an endless source to choose from.)

It is a shame that the OP is so narrow is scope of what he will read. He'll miss out on Discworld. He'll also miss out on a lot of other really good works because there may be a small sex scene or magic isn't evil.

[Pilgrim86]

Originally Posted by crossi

The Deryni series by Kurtz. They do use magic but it's more like a inherited psychic ability of one race. The spells they use use a lot of Christian symbolism and some of the practitioners are priests.

RiddleMaster of Hed by Patricia McKillip. Sort of magic but not spells or witchcraft.

Hero and the Crown By Robin Mckinley

Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon

A wrinkle in time by Madelaine L'Engle

James White Hospital Station books.

Any by James Schmitz

Crystal Singer and The Ship Who Sang by McCaffrey.

I read the Paksenarrion books as a kid, I remember liking them. Will mark your other recommendations. Thanks

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It is a shame that the OP is so narrow is scope of what he will read. He'll miss out on Discworld. He'll also miss out on a lot of other really good works because there may be a small sex scene or magic isn't evil.

Recommending books to people is not about getting them to read books I think they should read/enjoy. It's about recommending books I think they might like, given the parameters they indicated were important to them. In other words... their request is more about them and much less about me. If I have no suggestions that fall within their parameters, I'd consider not making any suggestions at all (rather than trying to shoehorn my own favorites in where they don't belong). It's no skin off my nose if nothing I'm familiar with fits the bill.

[hildea]

I remembered one where magic is evil: Matt Ruff: "Lovecraft Country". I don't remember any sex scenes, and a quick search for "kiss" in the text only got three hits, without any sex following them, so it's probably OK for you.

Chicago, 1954. When his father Montrose goes missing, 22-year-old Army veteran Atticus Turner embarks on a road trip to New England to find him, accompanied by his Uncle George—publisher of The Safe Negro Travel Guide—and his childhood friend Letitia. On their journey to the manor of Mr. Braithwhite—heir to the estate that owned one of Atticus’s ancestors—they encounter both mundane terrors of white America and malevolent spirits that seem straight out of the weird tales George devours.

You might also check out Mary Robinette Kowal's Lady Astronaut series, starting with "The Calculating Stars". I haven't read that one, but I've read a couple of her other books/series (which don't fit your "no magic" requirement). She's a very good writer, and based on her writing style from what I have read, it would surprise me if there are sex scenes there.

A meteor decimates the U.S. government and paves the way for a climate cataclysm that will eventually render the earth inhospitable to humanity. This looming threat calls for a radically accelerated timeline in the earth’s efforts to colonize space, as well as an unprecedented opportunity for a much larger share of humanity to take part.

One of these new entrants in the space race is Elma York, whose experience as a WASP pilot and mathematician earns her a place in the International Aerospace Coalition’s attempts to put man on the moon. But with so many skilled and experienced women pilots and scientists involved with the program, it doesn’t take long before Elma begins to wonder why they can’t go into space, too—aside from some pesky barriers like thousands of years of history and a host of expectations about the proper place of the fairer sex. And yet, Elma’s drive to become the first Lady Astronaut is so strong that even the most dearly held conventions may not stand a chance.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by hildea

I remembered one where magic is evil: Matt Ruff: "Lovecraft Country". I don't remember any sex scenes, and a quick search for "kiss" in the text only got three hits, without any sex following them, so it's probably OK for you.

You might also check out Mary Robinette Kowal's Lady Astronaut series, starting with "The Calculating Stars". I haven't read that one, but I've read a couple of her other books/series (which don't fit your "no magic" requirement). She's a very good writer, and based on her writing style from what I have read, it would surprise me if there are sex scenes there.

The only implied sex in The Calculating Stars is between a married couple and it is not described in any detail. I believe, given my parochial school education, that it might fit what OP is looking for. Good call hildea.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hildea

I remembered one where magic is evil: Matt Ruff: "Lovecraft Country". I don't remember any sex scenes, and a quick search for "kiss" in the text only got three hits, without any sex following them, so it's probably OK for you.

I've not read this. But I have seen the TV series. I did enjoy the TV series.

[JSWolf]

A book that has no magic and no sex and is rather good is All You need is Kill by Hiroshi Sakurazaka.

There's one thing worse than dying. It's coming back to do it again and again.When the alien Gitai invade, Keiji Kiriya is just one of many raw recruits shoved into a suit of battle armor and sent out to kill. Keiji dies on the battlefield, only to find himself reborn each morning to fight and die again and again. On the 158th iteration though, he sees something different, something out of place: the female soldier known as the Bitch of War. Is the Bitch the key to Keiji's escape, or to his final death?

[McGonigle]

Sci-Fi:

Arthur C. Clarke?
Robert J. Sawyer?
Stephen Baxter?
Greg Bear?
Gregory Benford?

Classics:

Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by McGonigle

Sci-Fi:

Arthur C. Clarke?
Robert J. Sawyer?
Stephen Baxter?
Greg Bear?
Gregory Benford?

Classics:

Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes?

You have to pick specific books or series. Not all books from the authors you've mentioned may fit what the OP wants.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It is a shame that the OP is so narrow is scope of what he will read. He'll miss out on Discworld. He'll also miss out on a lot of other really good works because there may be a small sex scene or magic isn't evil.

Wel, I might remind you of a discussion in the book club about the Dorothy Sayers' book Whose Body?. You appeared to take offence when just one character, only briefly part of the story, expressed anti-Semitic views.

And I'd like to cut the selection down even further by pointing out that a lot of science fiction includes what amounts to magic. There's a Doctor Who episode on TV where the doctor admits "I'd didn't want to say magic door". What is a light sabre but a magic sword made for sci-fi? What is a Warp Drive but a magical way of transporting our heroes around the galaxy? None of these things has any credible scientific basis. So if you want to avoid magic, then out with Doctor Who, out with Star Wars, out with Star Trek ... and so on down the line.

McGonigle mentioned Arthur C. Clarke, and you were right question that. For example Cradle, cowritten with Gentry Lee, includes some of the most explicit sex scenes I've seen in any book carrying Clarke's name. On the other hand, I don't remember any sex in The Trigger by Arthur C. Clarke and Michael Kube-McDowell; it's been years since I read it, but the premise was based in science, so it probably fits the OP quite well and it was an excellent story.

[drofgnal]

I'd suggest the OP browse through these lists:

http://bestfantasybooks.com/best-epic-fantasy.html

[Calenorn]

I wonder if any Stephen Lawhead books would serve.

[drofgnal]

Some others that I thought about are the Redwall series by Brian Jaques, you can't get 'cleaner'. And of course one of my favorites Watership Down is as clean as well.