09-04-2013, 05:37 AM | #31 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 67
Karma: 2179026
Join Date: Apr 2013
Device: none
|
Quote:
I don't think your software analogy is apt, since you pay for multi-user licence for software if more than one user are concurrently using them. You don't pay multi user software licenses if you set the software on one computer and have other people use it too. I am not going to pay for a multi user license for my copy of excel if my computer is used by myself, my wife and my kid. It's installed on one computer and I can lend to however I see fit to use whatever I have on it. Otherwise, next thing you know, we 'll have some software company sending us seize and desist emails, because apparently they figured out that instead of myself using their software it was actually my cat stepping on the keyboard, hence another user. |
|
09-04-2013, 05:41 AM | #32 | |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Quote:
|
|
Advert | |
|
09-04-2013, 06:09 AM | #33 | |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Quote:
Just because it's electronic it should not be treated differently. It's just the fuggin publishers trying to preserve their dinosaur ways. |
|
09-04-2013, 06:14 AM | #34 | |
The Dank Side of the Moon
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
|
Quote:
It's just more bs from the publishers. The sooner we can get rid of the dinosaurs and move into Monkey's brave new world the better. P.S. I don't often agree with Cory as I think he's something of a blowhard and rabble rouser in many cases, but in this I'm in agreement with him and with the ALA. Last edited by kennyc; 09-04-2013 at 06:45 AM. |
|
09-04-2013, 07:05 AM | #35 | |
Addict
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
|
Quote:
In a free market, the seller gets to decide what product to produce, and what price to put on it. The buyer gets to look at the offered products and decide whether or not to part with the cash the seller asks for, or to forgo the purchase altogether. It is not a market failure when I don't buy a Ferrari because I believe it costs too much. Nor is it a market failure when Saab disappears as a continuing interest after they have proven unable to make a product that people want at the price they needed to charge to make a profit. If there were no eBooks at the library, then we could say the deal is not fair. But libraries continue to purchase eBooks, even with these rules in place, and as long as that continues, there is no reason for the publishers to change the way they act. If the eBook situation is really as horrible as you believe, then a grass-roots campaign to inform citizens to stop borrowing eBooks from the library and to demand that libraries stop purchasing them would be an effective remedy. If an informed public stopped borrowing eBooks, the libraries would stop buying them, and the publishers would either change their ways or cease to exist. That's how the free market works, should work, and must work. The government-controlled market is where the government comes in and tells the producer how they must create their product, bundle their product, and price their product. Historically, this has led to many more companies ceasing to exist as government bureaucrats typically lack the business sense to make a company profitable. And companies without profits typically don't last long. |
|
Advert | |
|
09-04-2013, 07:27 AM | #36 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 67
Karma: 2179026
Join Date: Apr 2013
Device: none
|
Quote:
Different people used to read the same copy of a print book, that's the point of libraries since time immemorial. I might be wrong but I was under the impression that the libraries' one copy of a print book was shared out to anyone who required it at no additional licensing cost per book loan. |
|
09-04-2013, 07:41 AM | #37 | |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Quote:
|
|
09-04-2013, 07:59 AM | #38 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 67
Karma: 2179026
Join Date: Apr 2013
Device: none
|
Quote:
I find it offensive that publishers think they can just push data out of a server (and for that matter data that is a dwarfs size compared to serving music, let alone video) to a library and then to users and demand multiple licences per book, on a book read each time by one person. But I respect your opinion and I could quite possibly be wrong with my take here. |
|
09-04-2013, 08:04 AM | #39 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
For the most part, when a consumer buys an ebook, it's not just a license, but rather a sale, so they can't restrict the number of times you can read the ebook, or any such thing limitation that would be valid if it was a license. The question of the use of DRM to restrict the reading to a specific reading technology is a different issue. My guess is that this particular situation is a license verse a sale won't be determined unless someone takes them to court (i.e. expensive) and even then it will be very dependent on how the judge involved in the case views it rather than any hard and fast legal doctrine. |
|
09-04-2013, 08:53 AM | #40 | |
Nameless Being
|
Quote:
Books seem to fall into different categories. High circulation titles tend to be bought in high volumes. If a copy is damaged beyond repair or is lost, the library probably won't repurchase the damaged or lost copy. That is particularly true for the recent releases, which have a short shelf life anyhow. At the other extreme are low circulation titles. If a copy is damaged beyond repair or lost, the library probably won't repurchase the damaged or lost copy. On top of that, there is no guarantee that a library can replace a book that is damaged beyond repair or lost since a limited number of copies are printed in the first place. Notice how I said damaged beyond repair in both cases. The library certainly has the option to repair damaged books. This ranges from taping torn pages to rebinding the book. Another option that libraries seem to take is buying books in an appropriate binding. A lot of popular recent releases seem to be purchased as mass-market paperbacks. These certainly wear out rapidly, and are highly susceptible to damage. Genre books that are purchased in low volume, and a small allotment of those popular titles are bought as more durable bindings. I highly doubt that these leave circulation after 26 "reads". Patron usage is also a factor here. Some patrons sign out books and never read them or simply make limited use of them. Some patrons read books at a slower pace, and may sign it out multiple times for a single read. Of course these factors will influence some types of books more than others. Does this constitute wear, or at least wear to the same degree that the circulation rate suggests? In a sense, you're right. It is a bit unfair to publishers to sell once and have it used forever. In another sense, you're a bit off base: there are a multitude of factors the influence how long a book can remain in circulation, and there is a huge conflict of interest when it comes down to publishers making that determination. Maybe libraries and publishers should be working on a multifaceted approach. Recent releases can be lent out, with a fee per circulation and perhaps a fee based upon the number of simultaneously circulating copies. Older books, and less popular titles, will be treated much like print books. Those books are of limited financial interest to publishers, and would have been of no financial interest to publishers after the first publication in the days of print anyhow. Or maybe there are other options. All that I know is that libraries and consumers should be able to reap the same benefits as booksellers and publishers. Technological advance should benefit all parties, not just the parties who have the greatest access to it. |
|
09-04-2013, 08:58 AM | #41 | |
Zealot
Posts: 138
Karma: 1025658
Join Date: Jun 2013
Device: Kobo Glo, Kindle 3 3g, Nook HD+, Nexus 4 (Mantano)
|
Quote:
Spoiler:
And THIS^ is why there needs to be a change. What a violation of what good books are all about! Really, for all practical purposes, paper books will last just as long as real books- if you are careful with them. My paper books will easily last my lifetime as I value them. Really, if you're careless with your ebooks and misplace them, accidentally delete them, you name it, then you've lost them too. Of course that analogy fails because if you've bought into any corporate "ecosystem" you can re-download them for free. What about removing that option and making you the owner of the ebook, free to do whatever you want with it- read it, loan it, lose it. Like a real book. |
|
09-04-2013, 09:27 AM | #42 |
Guru
Posts: 992
Karma: 12000001
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle Wahington U.S.
Device: kindle
|
Only if they bought the special, sturdier edition. Nothing stops a library from going into the local Barnes & Noble and simply buying a book like any other customer.
|
09-04-2013, 09:50 AM | #43 |
Guru
Posts: 618
Karma: 1526148
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: A place where the sun always shines
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Mini 2
|
This argument might work except for the fact that libraries often purchase p-books for cheaper prices than retail. Why is it ok for libraries to purchase p-books below retail but pay above retail for e-books? Imagine paying $60 a pop for 10 licenses of Fifty Shades of Gray or Gone Girl. That's $600.00! Libraries certainly aren't paying that much for 10 (or more) physical copies of the same book!
|
09-04-2013, 10:37 AM | #44 | |
Addict
Posts: 239
Karma: 1664052
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
|
Quote:
But the real issue here is one I can perfectly understand. It wouldn't take long for somebody to set up a server to connect "friends" who want the same eBook, and instead of selling tens of thousands of copies, the same 100-200 copies would be "shared" with "friends" all over the world. You'd end up with a virtual library that would serve the entire world, and it wouldn't cost much to set up and run, and a few donations would keep it running. And since the eBooks would always be perfect and delivery would be cheap, there'd be no reason to buy more copies. Even people who must have the latest book the day it is released could find incentives to "donate" their eBook once they're done with it to the global library. With a physical book, the costs involved in locating other interested readers and shipping to them prevents this from being a viable option, though it staggers my mind how many books are available for $0.01 used on Amazon, plus shipping, which works out to $4/book. |
|
09-04-2013, 10:49 AM | #45 | |
Fully Converged
Posts: 18,163
Karma: 14021202
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Switzerland
Device: Too many to count here.
|
Related: Lending of e-books not always easy for suburban libraries
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Publishers Restricting Libraries: RIP Sony Readers? | randyflycaster | Sony Reader | 44 | 03-16-2011 07:28 PM |
How to Destroy The Book - Cory Doctorow | Elfwreck | News | 44 | 12-19-2009 12:07 AM |
New Cory Doctorow non-fiction book | garygibsonsf | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 22 | 10-21-2008 09:44 PM |
Cory Doctorow book search | HappyMartin | Reading Recommendations | 7 | 08-06-2008 09:25 AM |
New CC E-book from Cory Doctorow | plantedbypiggies | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 7 | 05-08-2008 01:12 PM |