08-30-2012, 08:36 AM | #76 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,264
Karma: 10203040
Join Date: Dec 2011
Device: a variety (mostly kindles and kobos)
|
Quote:
And this has nothing to do with "changes rippling through the industry" - neither the idea of ads or reviews is new, nor sadly the idea of paid-for ads masquerading as reviews. |
|
08-30-2012, 09:31 AM | #77 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
|
Quote:
As far as my image to others, I'd like to think the fact that I don't participate in any of those practices--even if it means two years' hiatus from writing while looking for a workable promotional system, and zero sales for a dozen perfectly good and well-received novels--counts for something. If not... c'est la vie. (Makes you wonder why I bother to write, doesn't it? Yeah, me too.) So my opinion is, if this is what sets you off on a righteous rampage to fix the world... well, you probably haven't been paying enough attention. But either way, John Locke is one guy... he does not represent all independent artists, any more than Barry Bonds represents all baseball players. He's one bad egg in an otherwise good basket, and despite what alarmists say, his presence will not make the rest of the basket go bad. He's a blip that will fade away. Stop fanning the flames, and let it fade. |
|
Advert | |
|
08-30-2012, 09:32 AM | #78 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
And with the value of crowd-sourced reviews, which has been up for discussion for years. Long before this new kerfufle. Most recently: http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...ted-reader/%29, http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...ative-reviews/ Ads masquerading as reviews is hardy a new development; many magazines have for years featured marketting supplements--not always clearly identified--ad TV has long been littered with informercials. Other similar gimmicks come to mind: Tupperware "parties" etc. Some people tend to over-value reviews and live their lives with Consumer Reports as their holy book. Others are a bit skeptical of even the most pristine of consumerist organizations. Caveat Emptor goes back to the Romans, so skepticism when dealing with any kind of commercial advocacy/evaluation is hardly new. What is new is that we as consumers need to learn how to evauate the variety of inputs in the (relatively) new ebook space. Cars and TV sets have been around long enough for educated consumers to have internalized a set of guidelines for navigating the product advocacy space (buzzwords, double-talk, marketting tricks, promo schemes, etc). eBooks? It's early. To me, the main takeaway is that in addition to axe-grinding reviewers, slacktivists, clueless kneejerkers, and sock-puppets (all of which have been acknowledged as issues before this) we now have to watch out for paid shills. In other words: this is an incremental degradation, not a sea change. The sky isn't falling. |
|
08-30-2012, 10:05 AM | #79 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,345
Karma: 52398889
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
|
08-30-2012, 10:19 AM | #80 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,345
Karma: 52398889
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
(1) a newspaper independently deciding it supports X for certain reasons, and therefore publishing an editorial urging others to also support X, and (2) a newspaper taking money from the Committee for X in exchange for publishing an editorial urging others to support X? Really? It's all the same thing to you? So bribery, payola, etc.--no problem? Really? |
|
Advert | |
|
08-30-2012, 10:27 AM | #81 | |||
Apprentice Curmudgeon.
Posts: 427
Karma: 3286968
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Runaway Bay, QLD, , Australia
Device: Kindle DX Graphite, Touch, Paperwhite, Sony, and Nook.
|
Quote:
In the past, if you wanted to buy a new book, you would look at the various media reviews. We all knew that some reviewers had biases and quirks, but if they all agreed that a new author was worth a look, then generally you could rely on that. In the case of eBooks, the only reviews are semi-anonymous and aggregated. If that system accepts cheating, we have nothing to rely on. What people like Locke are doing is destroying credibility, damaging the genuine hard earned positive reviews, tarring all with his sordid little brush. It really isn't just a matter of "Oh well, just another blip on the e-literary horizon" it is a death knell. How do you propose to overcome a system where no one trusts reviews? The integrity of the reviews system must be protected, and hopefully as it is a flaw in Amazon's business machine, they will take steps to tighten and control their review system. It has been failing for some time, this last issue has just focused some attention on the problem. Quote:
Quote:
To reiterate, it can't be brushed off as "John Locke is one guy... he does not represent all independent artists" as he is doing damage. It doesn't take much more than one guy. How many aspiring authors are right now looking for ways to buy reviews based simply on the publicity that has surrounded him in the last couple of days? "Cheat and sell a million books. Sound tempting? You can be pretty damned sure that there will be more than just a few of them stampeding down the trail that he has blazed. |
|||
08-30-2012, 10:45 AM | #82 | |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Quote:
Or how about the more recent MSNBC choosing not to air a single Black or Hispanic speaker at the GOP convention? Not a single one? Hmm. Wonder if they had an agenda there? Wonder if I should believe their "editorials" on any subject. Rush Limbaugh? Excuse me, is there anyone left on the planet that doesn't see it as total propaganda? He is selling himself. He attempts to incite and entertain at the same time. Ted Rall? Editorials are the same thing on a different level. I lump much of media into: Advertising. Editorials are just a slightly different form of it. What I'm saying is I have a problem with all of it, not just the most obvious forms of bribery or payola. Misconstruing facts or leaving them out to push an agenda, whether paid for it or not (as a legal ad) doesn't sit right with me no matter who does it--authors, politicians, media, bribery, payola, etc. I'm a suspicious sort to begin with and these days agendas aren't even disguised well. Also note that the FCC considers reviews similar to ads--which is why review sites and bloggers are now supposed to put a disclaimer/note telling readers whether or not they received the book for free or in exchange for a review. |
|
08-30-2012, 11:08 AM | #83 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,345
Karma: 52398889
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
Your examples are completely irrelevant, unless you want to tell me that some outside party PAID news organizations to act as you claim they did. |
|
08-30-2012, 11:24 AM | #84 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,345
Karma: 52398889
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
|
|
08-30-2012, 11:41 AM | #85 | |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Quote:
But for me as a READER, I don't care about the differences. They are both forms of paid propaganda and I don't read editorials for that reason. They disgust me. I don't read paid reviews either (if I know about it.) |
|
08-30-2012, 11:46 AM | #86 | |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Quote:
I'm not sure that a sale is taken away from me when a person buys a different book, but I do know that lack of quality in books (Whether trad or indie) causes people to go do other things rather than read. A string of mediocre books makes people switch up to some other entertainment. It makes ME walk away from books for a while. And mis-marketing books (like the books I'm currently reading was marketed and says right on it urban fantasy--it's not--it's romantic suspense.) annoys me too. And trad publishers catch me in that web all the blipping time. Hmph. |
|
08-30-2012, 11:50 AM | #87 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,345
Karma: 52398889
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip
|
Quote:
In the other case, the writer is LYING. He is acting as the mouthpiece for someone else; he is a puppet for sale to the highest bidder. |
|
08-30-2012, 11:50 AM | #88 | |
Crank Up The Awesome!
Posts: 315
Karma: 708054
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Japan
Device: Kindle, Nook, iPhone
|
Quote:
|
|
08-30-2012, 11:57 AM | #89 | |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Quote:
That is exactly my point. And I was told this BY THE AUTHOR, not a third party. He blogged about it after he quit. He also wrote ghost books and often had to write POVs he did not agree with. So in some cases, they are one and the same: Paid for work. I seriously doubt he is the only one who did it. He also wrote political speeches on a couple of occasions. Paid for work. |
|
08-30-2012, 11:59 AM | #90 |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Question: is it wrong to pay people to write unbiased reviews of a book? (It's against Amazon's TOS, but that's a different question).
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
John Locke the first Million Kindle Indie author | TheSFReader | News | 37 | 06-25-2011 08:07 PM |
Romance Locke, William John: Septimus. V1. 13 Jan 2010 | crutledge | Kindle Books | 0 | 01-13-2010 07:52 AM |
Romance Locke, William John: Septimus. V1. 13 Jan 2010 | crutledge | ePub Books | 0 | 01-13-2010 07:45 AM |
Other Fiction Locke, William John: The Mountebank. V1. 12 Jan 2010 | crutledge | Kindle Books | 0 | 01-12-2010 07:47 AM |
Philosophy Locke, John: Two Treatises of Government. 19 Oct 2008 | RWood | BBeB/LRF Books | 0 | 10-19-2008 10:12 PM |