Amazon vs. Hachette Update - It's About Price

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Of course, for a while, everyone discounting the hard back price of major best sellers, _did_ devalue the hard back books, which may be part of why big book stores had trouble staying in business. They needed high margin sells to cover their overhead.

It's still going on. If publishers fear book devaluation for ebooks then why don't they fear it for hardcovers? Why do they continue to allow bookstores to sharply discount hardcovers? It's time they institute Agency for this format. Otherwise, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's still going on. If publishers fear book devaluation for ebooks then why don't they fear it for hardcovers? Why do they continue to allow bookstores to sharply discount hardcovers? It's time they institute Agency for this format. Otherwise, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

Hardly. The issue is setting the initial price expectation with the public, not setting the discount price for books that aren't selling. Two very different things.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Hardly. The issue is setting the initial price expectation with the public, not setting the discount price for books that aren't selling. Two very different things.

Amazon could, you know, just start selling HC with prices at or below cost. Except they don't have to do that - they got enough customer service going on with print books. And they are not standing still, ever expanding into new ways to stay customer friendly through excellent customer service.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=244824

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Hardly. The issue is setting the initial price expectation with the public, not setting the discount price for books that aren't selling. Two very different things.

Look at the NYT best seller list at B&N and tell me those discounts aren't really there.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/20/amaz...off_the_rails/

Why would Amazon be worried about its rhetoric appealing to such a tiny demographic in the first place? It's "appealing" to who it appeals to. Which is probably more than enough.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's still going on. If publishers fear book devaluation for ebooks then why don't they fear it for hardcovers? Why do they continue to allow bookstores to sharply discount hardcovers? It's time they institute Agency for this format. Otherwise, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

Walk into almost any of the 2,000 independent bookstores and you will pay full list price for hardcovers. You may save 10% if you become a paying "member."

It's basically only the online stores that discount; Amazon, B&N, BAM. Even the non-bestsellers in B&N are full price, again, unless you pay for membership.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Fbone

It's basically only the online stores that discount; Amazon, B&N, BAM. Even the non-bestsellers in B&N are full price, again, unless you pay for membership.

What Amazon did online to a select category of ebooks is no different than what B&N is doing online to a select category of hardcovers.

Like I said, the publishers are being quite hypocritical.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Walk into almost any of the 2,000 independent bookstores and you will pay full list price for hardcovers. You may save 10% if you become a paying "member."

It's basically only the online stores that discount; Amazon, B&N, BAM. Even the non-bestsellers in B&N are full price, again, unless you pay for membership.

Hmmm...I've never paid for membership in a bookstore, and I've also never paid full price for a hardcover book--not even when I bought Harry Potter books on release day. When I say "never" I'm talking about since I started buying books...which was in the mid 80s, so that was before any online stores existed.

Shari

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by shalym

Hmmm...I've never paid for membership in a bookstore, and I've also never paid full price for a hardcover book--not even when I bought Harry Potter books on release day. When I say "never" I'm talking about since I started buying books...which was in the mid 80s, so that was before any online stores existed.

Shari

Harry Potter books were Best Sellers, therefore discounted. Most stores like Target, Walmart may offer a small discount but they only sell best sellers. If you are looking for a reference non-fiction title, it will be full price at B&N or indie bookstore, if they even stock it.

I should add that all the indie bookstores in my area went out of business so even offering a small discount couldn't save them.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's still going on. If publishers fear book devaluation for ebooks then why don't they fear it for hardcovers? Why do they continue to allow bookstores to sharply discount hardcovers? It's time they institute Agency for this format. Otherwise, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

Your right about the publishers being hypocrites, but not right about pBooks going agency. eBooks should be treated like pBooks in the ability to heavily discount them to reasonable prices.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

What Amazon did online to a select category of ebooks is no different than what B&N is doing online to a select category of hardcovers.

Like I said, the publishers are being quite hypocritical.

Not the same thing. B&N wasn't selling hardcovers below cost. Amazon admitted to selling certain ebooks (about 25% of bestsellers) below cost.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Not the same thing. B&N wasn't selling hardcovers below cost. Amazon admitted to selling certain ebooks (about 25% of bestsellers) below cost.

So what if some ebooks were sold below cost?! The public doesn't know that. All they know is that certain categories of paper books and ebooks are steeply discounted and that's the price they expect for future purchases. The below cost differentiation is a red herring and irrelevant to this discussion.

Maybe Amazon should try a different approach. They could let the publishers set retail prices for ebooks and then when a customer buys one, Amazon gives that customer a $3 to $5 credit in the Kindle store or at Amazon.com. That's the strategy retailers use when selling products from companies that won't allow discounts on certain items - iPads, gaming systems, etc.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Your right about the publishers being hypocrites, but not right about pBooks going agency. eBooks should be treated like pBooks in the ability to heavily discount them to reasonable prices.

I oppose agency. I used that approach to expose the hypocrisy on the part of the publishers.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Publishing a book by Paul Ryan just dropped Hatchette into the crazy category and dropped them down in my opinion.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Spot on assessment

Why is Hachette subject to a ideological litmus test when it publishes books by authors across the political spectrum, but Amazon gets a free pass when it discounts Paul Ryan?

Also possibly relevant is this Amazon-published bit of Ryan hagiography, available for free via KindleUnlimited:

http://www.amazon.com/Marco-Rubio-Pa...22paul+ryan%22

P.S. Amazon did reduce Ryan's hardback discount, overnight, from 39 percent to 19 percent. But Amazon is still treating Ryan better, in terms of quick shipping and discount, than the three other August Hachette releases I checked:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lost-Islan...8751814&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Sweetness-Nove...8752024&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Mind-Mis...8752126&sr=8-1

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

So what if some ebooks were sold below cost?! The public doesn't know that. All they know is that certain categories of paper books and ebooks are steeply discounted and that's the price they expect for future purchases. The below cost differentiation is a red herring and irrelevant to this discussion.

Maybe Amazon should try a different approach. They could let the publishers set retail prices for ebooks and then when a customer buys one, Amazon gives that customer a $3 to $5 credit in the Kindle store or at Amazon.com. That's the strategy retailers use when selling products from companies that won't allow discounts on certain items - iPads, gaming systems, etc.

It has everything to do with the conversation. If Amazon sold ebooks like they sold hardcovers, wholesale cost + small profit, the publishers wouldn't have been so upset and colluded to establish agency pricing.

Amazon should have been more patient and build up their KDP selection with lower prices. Market these (and any cooperating pubs) heavily. This would price the Big 6 out of the market. Letting them voluntary reduce prices is preferable to forcing the issue.