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Old 02-20-2018, 04:44 PM   #121
JSWolf
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I'm with issybird on this -- you're more than welcome to nominate it, and if it is selected, we'll discuss the book without going into P&R territory. And certainly, anyone who doesn't find themselves able to keep the discussion 'clean' will simply not participate. But I think we're all adults here (or at least imitate them on the Internet ) so I think such a nomination is fine.
Keeping out of the P&R territory means you really cannot talk about Jesus in a religious way and give that it's a religious book, I don't think we can keep out of P&R.
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #122
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Sometimes we need to be offended.
I'm offended enough by the current US government. I don't need or want to read something offensive (on purpose).
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:57 PM   #123
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True enough. I'm all for "offensive" when it means challenging set beliefs or expanding one's understanding. Since I haven't read this book, I don't know if that's what it does.

What I most wanted to point out, though, is the disconnect between the two sets of reviews, Amazon and Audible. When I skimmed Amazon, I thought, well, maybe I could make myself read this (remember I am not an SF reader); when I looked at Audible, my reaction was no way, even though I am not an organized-religion person.

That's my two cents. SF is already problematic for me, and adding an anti-religious bias (my impression) makes it a nonstarter. As I said, though, I don't have any desire to block a nomination; I may want to nominate something offensive and controversial myself at some point.
I took a look at some of the reviews at Audible and I don't think you can do a proper discussion without getting too much into religion and thus, P&R territory.

I suggest every one go have a read of the reviews to see what you think.

https://www.audible.com/pd/Sci-Fi-Fa...ook/B00CUG55VG

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Old 02-20-2018, 05:48 PM   #124
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I like this one! Though I'm OK with us leaving the title alone, but adding a paragraph into the first post. IAC, as folks can see, I'm going to keep talking about what I'm reading when I think it's of general interest, and I really encourage others to join in. Let's talk about books! And not just the ones we actually select for everyone to read. For me, this new theme approach has done such a good job of driving discovery I want to extend that here. In both directions. I hope my posts will lead to others discovering an interest in the books I'm finding, but I also hope to find even more from what you're reading. So join in!
Oh good, I’m glad you liked that one Charlie. I thought it might cover what we want this thread to do - indicate it is a place for friendly discussions of various things, and include the word Welcome.

Any other responses? Issybird, does it hit the spot for you?
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:05 PM   #125
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I don’t think we should be censoring books because of possible offence to some people’s beliefs or lack of them. By all means nominate the book and it may get up and win, or it may not.
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:33 PM   #126
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I don’t think we should be censoring books because of possible offence to some people’s beliefs or lack of them. By all means nominate the book and it may get up and win, or it may not.
Please read the reviews and you'll see why this may not be a good idea to nominate.

I don't want to knowingly nominate a book that may very well be offensive to some and the discussion can't be here because it would have to be moved to P&R. From the reviews, I don't see how we could get a good discussion going without going into religion.
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:44 PM   #127
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Let go of it, Jon. You said what you said. We heard it. To quote the club rules: "No wrangling about nominations".
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:05 PM   #128
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Let go of it, Jon. You said what you said. We heard it. To quote the club rules: "No wrangling about nominations".
I'm not saying it's a lousy book or anything like that. I'm saying that I think based on the question(s) asked.

I've said my piece and linked the reviews that will give much more information about the book so an informed decision can be made.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:19 PM   #129
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As a general rule, I appreciate and agree with others here that suggest nominating need not be censored - and then we just let the voting process ignore items people would rather avoid.

But it is interesting to see the stark reactions from Audible. The two 1-star reviews on Amazon don't object on religious grounds, they simply didn't like the story. On Audible the 1-star reviews are obviously offended. Very strange.

So thank you, Catlady and JSWolf, for pointing out the Audible reviews. 4% 1-star, 83% 5-star on Amazon; 20% 1-star, 27% 5-star (story) on Audible. I would never have expected such a sharp difference between readers and listeners. (Obviously my opinion lies more in line with Amazon.)
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:46 PM   #130
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And if you look at Goodreads - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...om_search=true - you will get equally divergent views but an overall rating of four and a bit stars out of five.

I have yet to see a book that doesn't have a similar spread of approval or otherwise. We can all do our own research on any book nominated, and make up our own minds.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:26 PM   #131
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And if you look at Goodreads - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...om_search=true - you will get equally divergent views but an overall rating of four and a bit stars out of five.

I have yet to see a book that doesn't have a similar spread of approval or otherwise. We can all do our own research on any book nominated, and make up our own minds.
We can all do our own research in regard to pricing and availability, too, but the nominator is expected to do that. I don't see it as onerous for a nominator to consider possible negative reactions--and of course the nominator is then free to disregard them.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:27 AM   #132
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And if you look at Goodreads - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...om_search=true - you will get equally divergent views but an overall rating of four and a bit stars out of five.

I have yet to see a book that doesn't have a similar spread of approval or otherwise. We can all do our own research on any book nominated, and make up our own minds.
But notice that the review profile on Goodreads and Amazon both show 1-star reviews to be minimal - the expected book-to-reader mismatch that happens to even the best of books. But on Audible we see a very different profile - 1-star counts not far behind the 5-star counts (for story). If you accept that the book is at least good for the right audience (given the number of very positive reviews) then we must conclude that for some reason Audible is attracting more of the wrong audience ... I wonder why that is.

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We can all do our own research in regard to pricing and availability, too, but the nominator is expected to do that. I don't see it as onerous for a nominator to consider possible negative reactions--and of course the nominator is then free to disregard them.
This was me considering the possible negative reactions. I haven't decided whether to disregard them or not - yet. I do have some other possibilities in mind and may decide to go with something a bit less obviously touchy.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:42 AM   #133
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This was me considering the possible negative reactions. I haven't decided whether to disregard them or not - yet. I do have some other possibilities in mind and may decide to go with something a bit less obviously touchy.
Yes, and it seems a reasonable approach, which I appreciate!
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:33 AM   #134
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As a general rule, I appreciate and agree with others here that suggest nominating need not be censored - and then we just let the voting process ignore items people would rather avoid.

But it is interesting to see the stark reactions from Audible. The two 1-star reviews on Amazon don't object on religious grounds, they simply didn't like the story. On Audible the 1-star reviews are obviously offended. Very strange.

So thank you, Catlady and JSWolf, for pointing out the Audible reviews. 4% 1-star, 83% 5-star on Amazon; 20% 1-star, 27% 5-star (story) on Audible. I would never have expected such a sharp difference between readers and listeners. (Obviously my opinion lies more in line with Amazon.)
One of the Audible reviews mentions getting the book on sale as a daily deal. Being a daily deal probably brought the book to the attention of a lot of people outside the niche it would normally appeal to. It doesn't seem unusual that a few of them were deeply offended, when in the normal course of events they would have never noticed the book.

The book sounds interesting enough that I put it on my wish list. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay full price, but if they do a wish list sale someday I might pick it up.
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:57 PM   #135
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Alohamora, that daily deal thing could explain it.

One of the reasons for considering nominating this (besides liking the story myself) is that the ebook seems to be a couple of dollars below full price in most locations. But if you're happy to wait, it is old enough to be the sort of book that shows up on sale from time to time.
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