Seriousness What's the right word?

Canuck_in_Japan · 10-18-2014, 10:54 PM

I'm a native English speaker but I've been living in a foreign country for about 10 years and distressingly, I've noticed that my native language abilities just aren't as good as they used to be. I can still speak English well of course but there comes times when I just can't pull out a certain word that I feel I should know. I thought that with all the readers and intelligent people on this forum that this would be a good place to get the right. I'll probably need to continue using it and if anyone else feels the need, go ahead and ask your own question.

Ok, what is the word to describe the situation where someone is unaware that the argument that they are making actually goes against the point that they are trying to get across? I'm thinking along the lines of unintended irony but that's not the right word. There's a specific term for it. You often see it in political discussions, especially among those who are not very well informed.

badgoodDeb · 10-20-2014, 01:54 PM

[Some of that "can't find the right phrase" also seems to happen with age. I haven't spoken any but the one language, and I'm *still* experiencing that phenomena!]

I don't know the word you mean, but I'll put in my two cents and thereby bump the thread so somebody else might notice and have the right answer!

Pablo · 10-20-2014, 02:15 PM

Self-defeating?

badgoodDeb · 10-20-2014, 06:33 PM

Are you thinking of a formal logic term, such as " reductio ad absurdum " (which is the wrong one in this case, but all I can think of).

Canuck_in_Japan · 10-20-2014, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Are you thinking of a formal logic term, such as " reductio ad absurdum " (which is the wrong one in this case, but all I can think of).

Yes I am. I can't remember whether it was Latin or not. If I saw it I would recognize it immediately.

ATDrake · 10-20-2014, 08:55 PM

Maybe try going through Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies and see if anything seems familiar?

(Myself, I'd have guessed "counterfactual", but the term you're looking for seems to require more ignorance and irony than that.)

crich70 · 10-20-2014, 10:28 PM

Self-Contradictory?

Canuck_in_Japan · 10-20-2014, 10:49 PM

Ah I think it was cognitive dissonance! My description was not very accurate unfortunately.

Canuck_in_Japan · 10-20-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Maybe try going through Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies and see if anything seems familiar?

(Myself, I'd have guessed "counterfactual", but the term you're looking for seems to require more ignorance and irony than that.)

ATDrake, that's a very interesting link. Thank you.

10-18-2014, 10:54 PM	#1
Canuck_in_Japan Wizard Posts: 1,475 Karma: 14328611 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tokyo, Japan Device: Aura, Aura H2O, Kindle PW3	What's the right word? I'm a native English speaker but I've been living in a foreign country for about 10 years and distressingly, I've noticed that my native language abilities just aren't as good as they used to be. I can still speak English well of course but there comes times when I just can't pull out a certain word that I feel I should know. I thought that with all the readers and intelligent people on this forum that this would be a good place to get the right. I'll probably need to continue using it and if anyone else feels the need, go ahead and ask your own question. Ok, what is the word to describe the situation where someone is unaware that the argument that they are making actually goes against the point that they are trying to get across? I'm thinking along the lines of unintended irony but that's not the right word. There's a specific term for it. You often see it in political discussions, especially among those who are not very well informed.

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10-20-2014, 01:54 PM	#2
badgoodDeb Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,501 Karma: 64095689 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harrisburg outskirts Device: Palms, K1-4s, iPads, iPhones, KV, KO1	[Some of that "can't find the right phrase" also seems to happen with age. I haven't spoken any but the one language, and I'm still experiencing that phenomena!] I don't know the word you mean, but I'll put in my two cents and thereby bump the thread so somebody else might notice and have the right answer!

10-20-2014, 02:15 PM	#3
Pablo Guru Posts: 970 Karma: 4999999 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rosario, Argentina Device: SONY PRS-505, PRS-T2	Self-defeating?

10-20-2014, 06:33 PM	#4
badgoodDeb Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,501 Karma: 64095689 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harrisburg outskirts Device: Palms, K1-4s, iPads, iPhones, KV, KO1	Are you thinking of a formal logic term, such as " reductio ad absurdum " (which is the wrong one in this case, but all I can think of).

10-20-2014, 08:55 PM	#6
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	Maybe try going through Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies and see if anything seems familiar? (Myself, I'd have guessed "counterfactual", but the term you're looking for seems to require more ignorance and irony than that.)

10-20-2014, 10:28 PM	#7
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,305 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	Self-Contradictory?

10-20-2014, 10:49 PM	#8
Canuck_in_Japan Wizard Posts: 1,475 Karma: 14328611 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tokyo, Japan Device: Aura, Aura H2O, Kindle PW3	Ah I think it was cognitive dissonance! My description was not very accurate unfortunately.