Lending ebooks? A view from the FSF

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Not the same at all. It's more like lending your entire library.

Then strip the DRM and go rogue. Publishers are under no obligation - moral or legal - to offer lending.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Well, the point they're making (artificially limiting ebooks to mimic physical books as closely as possible, the worst of both worlds, if you will) is a valid one, you may agree with it or not. Calling that "drivel" certainly shows more about what kind of spirit you are than you may realize.

It's not valid. He's simply repackaging his "information is free" philosophy. DRM for all it's failings (which are many), is not breaking the ebook, it's ensuring that an ebook isn't FREE. You are not FREE to copy an ebook if the content creator does not wish to provide it for FREE.

Libraries SHOULDN'T have an unlimited lending ability because the books are not FREE. The DRM that limits how many users can take a book out at a time is simply a way for content creators to get paid.

If there were no DRM, and libraries could "lend" out an ebook infinitely, then you'd have one library buy one copy of the book, and everyone else would "borrow" the book from the library. Destroying the economic viability of writing books.

That DRM so far have problems, and that books are pirated anyway does nothing to reduce the credibility of the idea that information is NOT free, nor SHOULD it be free.

Copyright and patents are in place so that society can benefit from folks being able to make a profession out of creating content. Without there being a monetary incentive, we would not have the wealth of content creators that we currently enjoy.

Lee

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Then strip the DRM and go rogue. Publishers are under no obligation - moral or legal - to offer lending.

Yes, or don't lend at all. I'm just pointing out that they are touting a "lending" feature that is not.

Originally Posted by leebase

It's not valid.

I find the term "valid" slightly disturbing in this context. Where I come from every opinion is. You disagree with it? Whole 'nother story, but that doesn't render their opinion "invalid".

Libraries SHOULDN'T have an unlimited lending ability because the books are not FREE.

Well, that's open to debate. I can easily envision a model where compensation is largely determined by the number of times an ebook is borrowed, concurrently or not. And I for one agree, the current model really doesn't make much sense with digital files, it's an uphill battle to preserve decades-old business models that are on their way out.

Of course we need to compensate authors in some way and allow them to make a living off writing. I just don't think that the current approach will allow for that in the long run.

Copyright and patents are in place so that society can benefit from folks being able to make a profession out of creating content.

I am not going to discuss the finer points here (it's the only "profession" that continues to generate income long after you're gone), but I have nothing against a fair and balanced copyright, in principle. On the contrary, I think it's necessary and required in a modern, information-based society like ours.

[Anthem]

I think Sullivan is right.

Ebooks, thanks to the people who make them, are still a bad impersonation of physical books being played before our eyes. As Doctorow said, Neither E, Nor Book.

Ebooks should be different, but everyone is trying as hard as possible to keep them a slightly different, ultimately less usable equivalent which is unnecessarily limiting and terminally embarrassing.

[tubemonkey]

I see nothing limiting about ebooks, other than lack of a standard format. Even then, I'm still able to get the books I want.

Personally, I think lending is a non-issue because of the numerous ways currently available to loan books as many times as you want (without doing anything illegal).

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Personally, I think lending is a non-issue because of the numerous ways currently available to loan books as many times as you want (without doing anything illegal).

Which are?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Which are?

• loaning your ereader to someone else
• buying a 2nd ereader to loan
• borrowing someone else's ereader
• registering someone else's ereader on your account
• registering your ereader on someone else's account
• buying an ereader to share among several friends and taking turns

Sharing traditional paper books always meant you had to physically hand it to the other person. With digital books you have several options. You can use the "one loan per book per forever" or you can register multiple devices on one account allowing you to share all books on that account or you can physically hand an ereader to someone else.

[rogue_librarian]

I do not consider any of those viable alternatives. And I don't think I'm exactly alone in that regard. So, it's a "non-issue" for you, duly noted. For others it continues to be one.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

I do not consider any of those viable alternatives. And I don't think I'm exactly alone in that regard. So, it's a "non-issue" for you, duly noted. For others it continues to be one.

Well, you certainly can't "loan" a digital copy of a book without the publisher's permission. So, what's your solution?

[Barcey]

The "lending feature" is an attempt to maintain control where it doesn't exist any more so I agree with what he's saying that it's not necessary. The important thing for people that want to make a living from selling ebooks is that sharing is also a part of social networking and viral marketing. When someone lends me a physical book they're not just providing me access they're asking me to read it and discuss it later. My friends and family know what I like so it's a high percentage referral. It's order of magnitude better then giving away free books.

Getting paid for every copy is an unrealistic pipe dream and the best you can hope for is to get paid by enough people to make a living from it. For that to happen you have to me read by as many people as possible. If they like it they're likely to buy the next book.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ni..._networks.html

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Well, you certainly can't "loan" a digital copy of a book without the publisher's permission. So, what's your solution?

That, too, is open to debate (if ebooks are indeed software there is, in principle, nothing that would a priori prohibit me from transferring usage rights temporarily, provided a few other conditions are met), but let's just say that for the moment I don't have a good solution, either. I just do happen to think it's an issue, and the "solutions" you mentioned really are not, in my book.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

That, too, is open to debate (if ebooks are indeed software there is, in principle, nothing that would a priori prohibit me from transferring usage rights temporarily, provided a few other conditions are met), but let's just say that for the moment I don't have a good solution, either. I just do happen to think it's an issue, and the "solutions" you mentioned really are not, in my book.

Then strip the DRM, because anything that protects the copyright holder probably won't meet with most people's satisfaction.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

• loaning your ereader to someone else
• buying a 2nd ereader to loan
• borrowing someone else's ereader
• registering someone else's ereader on your account
• registering your ereader on someone else's account
• buying an ereader to share among several friends and taking turns

So actually only two options, written several times.
Either give/receive your/their/a new ereader
Or register multiple people on one account.
Neither allows you to lend a single book.
And the latter (at least with a Kindle) would give them access to buy whatever they wanted on your dime.

Sharing traditional paper books always meant you had to physically hand it to the other person. With digital books you have several options. You can use the "one loan per book per forever" or you can register multiple devices on one account allowing you to share all books on that account or you can physically hand an ereader to someone else.

How about just removing the file from my device and putting it on someone else's? That is the equivalent of lending a pBook.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

How about just removing the file from my device and putting it on someone else's? That is the equivalent of lending a pBook.

Sure, but it's only the equivalent if it involves a physical transfer of the file; like placing it on a memory card and then giving or mailing the card to the other person. That's how paper books were loaned.

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

I do not consider any of those viable alternatives. And I don't think I'm exactly alone in that regard.

You would be correct.