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Old Yesterday, 10:27 AM   #241
mbovenka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Is this ideal? Probably not. Should it be clearer what happens and when? Probably. Does the setting being discussed turn off all syncing? Absolutely not.
I'm with the OP, though, that it is not unreasonable to expect it to. There are other things that will have your Kobo attempt to connect to WiFI that have nothing to do with syncing, and which do not need you to hit the sync button.

That hitting the Sync button will have it sync is expected behaviour; that being connected to WiFi for other reasons with 'Automatic Sync' disabled will have it sync automatically anyway certainly is not.
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Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
And if anyone can be bothered to read the manual, it explicitly states that the way to connect the device to WiFi is to hit the sync button on the home page. So, you are told that any time you use the WiFi, it will attempt to sync.
The entire string of logic here is entirely inverse to my own. I'm not going to debate it, I wouldn't even now what thread to pull to start.

And unfortunately, I'm only talking about the impression I get of what happens from the posts here. I've never successfully registered a Kobo, (the three times I've tried on a device launch date, Kobo Registratonn servers failed for 1 reason or other,), so I don't even have a device to test without putting more work than I think Kobo synching is worth.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM   #243
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Slow firmware?

I tried the 4.12.12111 and looks very slows with same kepubs. With others works well. The 4.6.9995 worked fluentlly and well with every kepub.

My question: is it a problem of conversion and ebooks?
Have you done the same experience?
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Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
The opposite of Background & Automatic is MANUAL. Clicking the Sync icon.
But, read the screen. Please. Think about what it says. There is nothing on the screen that relates to anything other than the "daily automatic sync". There is nothing that implies any other behaviour than what is seen. It could be clearer, but, the actual behaviour is obvious.
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You are being overly pedantic.
If being pedantic is means that I actually pay attention to the words in front of me and work out what they mean, then fine, I'm being "overly pedantic".

If we are going to call each other names, then I think "overly obtuse" should fit you.
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I don't know why you are defending Kobo's ludicrous use of sync without user selection, which can result in an automatic firmware update.
Where? Where have I defended Kobo's behaviour? I have only explained how I understand it to works. And tried to get you to pay attention to what you see in front of you.

I disagree with how little control there is over the sync behaviour. And I have expressed that to Kobo when some of it changed. And guess what, they told me why it changed. Because their customers asked them to change it. There are plenty of other behaviour I don't like. I'll discuss them when and where I think they are appropriate. But, here, I am discussing how the devices currently work. What the options actually do and mean.
Quote:
The fact that there are a choice of times for an automatic sync doesn't suggest that with this setting off that Automatic Sync (in the background) STILL happens, but at a random time. That's crazy if that is what Kobo really mean and the automatic background sync STILL occurring isn't a bug.
And there you demonstrate that you have no idea what is going on and did not read my post. NONE of the syncs are random. The ONLY sync that happens that is not in direct response to a user action is that Daily automatic scheduled sync. And that you can turn off. Every other time the device contacts the Kobo server is because the user did something. Open the book list, it checks if the list of books is up to date. Open a purchased kepub and it syncs the reading status. Close the book and it syncs the reading status. Open the Pocket articles and it syncs the list of articles. Turn on WiFi and it does a sync. None of that is random. All of it is in response to something the user did. And is bleeding obvious that it happening.

Oh, do you think it is random because it doesn't do the sync every single time you do one of these actions? Of course it doesn't. There isn't, usually, a point in doing a sync every minute. There is a minimum time between attempts to sync (the Pocket article sync is the exception and is done every time the list is opened). And of course, you can manually start the sync whenever you want.
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If what you claim is true and that by design the intention that background sync is NEVER disabled, except obviously by disabling wifi, then that is a totally wrong decision by Kobo. Actually WORSE than a bug.
And as you are stuck on the term "background sync", can you tell me how to do a "foreground sync"? You can't. Because a "foreground sync" would take over the device. It wouldn't let you do anything else. Any time the device does any sort of sync it clearly shows that it is doing but doesn't interfere with the overall use of the device.

And yes, that is me being pedantic.

Just one more thing. None of this has changed recently. This is how it has worked for years. This is how it has always worked for the Kobo device that you have. Kobo does not pretend that it works any other way.
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbovenka View Post
I'm with the OP, though, that it is not unreasonable to expect it to. There are other things that will have your Kobo attempt to connect to WiFI that have nothing to do with syncing, and which do not need you to hit the sync button.

That hitting the Sync button will have it sync is expected behaviour; that being connected to WiFi for other reasons with 'Automatic Sync' disabled will have it sync automatically anyway certainly is not.
And as I keep saying, that settings page at no time says that it is turning of syncs triggered by other actions. It is only talking about the scheduled daily sync. Which it states explicitly.

But, what other reasons are there to connect to WiFi? There are only three things I can think of that: Syncing, Pocket and the Browser.

Opening the article list syncs the article list. Nothing else.

The browser does a connect. I don't know if it triggers a sync. It didn't just now, but, I might be within the minimum time between syncs.

I suppose there is also the store. That does need WiFi, but, I've never seen it trigger a sync. Except for the few times I've bought a book or when I've saved a preview. I'll have to watch it next time to see whether it just adds the book or does a full sync.

Wikipedia and Google searches. I have no idea how I forgot about these. These don't trigger syncs, but you will get the syncs related to other options.

Last edited by davidfor; Yesterday at 11:28 PM. Reason: Wikipedia and Google
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Old Today, 01:50 AM   #246
JeanPierre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
But, what other reasons are there to connect to WiFi? There are only three things I can think of that: Syncing, Pocket and the Browser.
Personally, every now and again I turn on wifi so that the clock is re-synced. I've had it go quite far out of sync on occasion, and when I noticed an obvious discrepancy with my other clocks, I will enable wifi rather than manually setting the clock. When I do this, I have to cancel the sync due to the auto-sync on connect. I would prefer if it didn't do this.
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Old Today, 03:54 AM   #247
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All this talk about syncs, and my Glo HD isn't even syncing on its own (lol). For some reason, whenever I trigger the sync manually it goes on for a few minutes and then stops without accomplishing anything. I've had to use the Desktop app (which has been working fine thankfully).
I'm not sure exactly what the issue is, it started with the latest firmware but I use it so little... (I mostly sideload). Every time I go back to it after an attempt I have to reconnect it manually to the Wi-Fi though, maybe that's the reason.
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Old Today, 05:02 AM   #248
mbovenka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
And as I keep saying, that settings page at no time says that it is turning of syncs triggered by other actions. It is only talking about the scheduled daily sync. Which it states explicitly.
I know, and you're right in saying that it only talks about the daily background sync.

Even so, to me it violates the Principle of Least Surprise that there even are other ways of triggering a sync than a) the sync button (which you can 'disable' by not using it) and b) the automatic daily background sync (which you can disable in the settings).

I think that's the point both the OP and myself are trying to make. I know it doesn't work that way (and that the settings nowhere say that it does), but I'm arguing that it should.
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Old Today, 06:29 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbovenka View Post
I know, and you're right in saying that it only talks about the daily background sync.

Even so, to me it violates the Principle of Least Surprise that there even are other ways of triggering a sync than a) the sync button (which you can 'disable' by not using it) and b) the automatic daily background sync (which you can disable in the settings).

I think that's the point both the OP and myself are trying to make. I know it doesn't work that way (and that the settings nowhere say that it does), but I'm arguing that it should.
And that is probably the problem. I'm not talking about how it should work. I am only talking about how it does work.

And I'm also talking about what is actually on that settings screen. I can understand why a cursory look at it will make someone thing it allows you to turn all syncing off. But, it quickly becomes obvious that it doesn't work that way. And the settings screen does explain what it is for.

But, how does a sync when you open "My Books" break the "Principle of Least Surprise"? You asked to look at your books. The device is making sure it has the complete list of books available to it. People have commented that they think that the Pocket articles syncing when the list is opened is a good idea. Why is it different for the book list?

And for the record, somewhere above I mentioned that that I asked Kobo why they added the sync when opening the book list. And I stated the answer was that their customers had asked for it. The more complete answer was that customers were complaining of about books missing in the book list. Apparently they expected a sync to be done at some time, and opening the list is a sensible time.
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Old Today, 07:27 AM   #250
Terisa de morgan
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Problem is "Principle of Least Surprise" is very, very personal. We assume that, if it surprises us, it assumes to the majority, but that's not necessary true. Perhaps your astonishment is the expected behavior of other user.
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