DRM and Purchasing? - Page 2

John F · 03-30-2016, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

Books are fungible, but they're not that fungible. The books I want to read, with the exception of public domain, are virtually without exception DRMed. Again, it would be nose-cutting for face-spiting for me to pursue a policy that DRMless books could replace the DRMful.

Reading's my favorite activity and I want to read what I want to read. DRM is a trifle, especially in a scenario where my favorite platform depended on purchasing DRMed books. As I said, Amazon would get much less of my business, but if I had to purchase a Kindle to get access to the content I wanted, I'd do that too.

To me, books are more fungible for both author and container. If a "must read" book didn't come out at the library (in either ebook or pbook), I would just skip it.

There are so many good/great/must read books out there, and so many books I want to read, missing an occasional book isn't going to kill me, and my nose would still be attached to my face.

fjtorres · 03-30-2016, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

Books are fungible, but they're not that fungible.

"Fungible" is, like "quality", in the eye (or wallet) of the beholder.
Everybody has their own set of values, their own triggers, their own boundaries.

There are several authors I used to buy that will never see a cent from me again because of things they've said and done. One of them has an ongoing series I was following. No more.

Hasn't killed me.
The money is going to somebody else so, yes, totally replaceable.
Nobody is good enough that I can't survive without their books.

Doesn't mean I expect everybody to share my values, though.
It's just that there is more than enough good content in the genres I enjoy that I don't have to support fools.

issybird · 03-30-2016, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F

To me, books are more fungible for both author and container. If a "must read" book didn't come out at the library (in either ebook or pbook), I would just skip it.

There are so many good/great/must read books out there, and so many books I want to read, missing an occasional book isn't going to kill me, and my nose would still be attached to my face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

"Fungible" is, like "quality", in the eye (or wallet) of the beholder.
Everybody has their own set of values, their own triggers, their own boundaries.

There are several authors I used to buy that will never see a cent from me again because of things they've said and done. One of them has an ongoing series I was following. No more.

Hasn't killed me.
The money is going to somebody else so, yes, totally replaceable.
Nobody is good enough that I can't survive without their books.

Doesn't mean I expect everybody to share my values, though.
It's just that there is more than enough good content in the genres I enjoy that I don't have to support fools.

I don't disagree with either statement in that I'm more than willing to get along without a particular book I want to read, based on price and other contingencies. As I said, books are fungible, to an extent. But I can't extrapolate from that to all books, because I'd be SOL in regard to the aggregate that I want to read, if I weren't willing to buy DRMed books.

I prefer to deDRM my books, but it's hardly a deal-breaker. I especially ascribe no value at all to "not supporting fools." If the book I want to read is available at or less than the price I'm willing to pay, then I'll buy it. So who's the fool?

darryl · 03-30-2016, 10:07 AM

We've just seen the B&N debacle in the UK, which is just the latest in a series. As I write this, Paul has a thread where he has been trying for many months in vain to get Amazon to state its policy on access to content after an account is closed. And of course there was the whole 1984 debacle. Amazon is a great company with great customer service but it is not perfect. And the others don't even come close. This alone is a good reason to think twice about buying ebooks if DRM cannot be removed. I should add that I have no objection to so-called 'Social DRM", which I personally don't classify as DRM at all.

dixieknits · 03-30-2016, 10:10 AM

Yes, I would buy, but would expect the seller, Amazon, Nook or whoever to improve their reading aps. Many more choices of formatting are needed for me. Bolding letters at night, line spacing, margins, etc and yes I really like page numbers.

HarryT · 03-30-2016, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixieknits

Yes, I would buy, but would expect the seller, Amazon, Nook or whoever to improve their reading aps. Many more choices of formatting are needed for me. Bolding letters at night, line spacing, margins, etc and yes I really like page numbers.

How do you manage with paper books, where none of these things can be changed, if such changes are a necessity for you?

latepaul · 03-30-2016, 10:58 AM

I'm voting yes for reasons already stated by others (occasional "must read" book, most books I won't re-read) however it's worth pointing out that no DRM can be uncrackable. Or rather there's always going to be the "analogue hole".

darryl · 03-30-2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latepaul

I'm voting yes for reasons already stated by others (occasional "must read" book, most books I won't re-read) however it's worth pointing out that no DRM can be uncrackable. Or rather there's always going to be the "analogue hole".

Yes, at least for audiobooks. And for ebooks, there is scanning and ocr. Perhaps even tts and voice recognition software. It is quite ironic to consider that drm free versions of many books will likely end up being only available from Pirate Sites. Lead us not into temptation ....

latepaul · 03-30-2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl

Yes, at least for audiobooks. And for ebooks, there is scanning and ocr. Perhaps even tts and voice recognition software. It is quite ironic to consider that drm free versions of many books will likely end up being only available from Pirate Sites. Lead us not into temptation ....

Scanning and OCR or simply have someone type it up.

Cory Doctorow made the point that if you look at the piracy that existed before ebooks were mainstream, and look at the amount of work it took (IIRC he estimated ~8hours per book) and the fact that people were still willing to do it, well that should tell you something about how futile DRM is.

For myself, I wouldn't be willing to do that much work so I'd probably either live with the restrictions or not buy. Or possibly buy and then also download a pirate copy (I'm morally OK with that even if it's technically illegal).

Cinisajoy · 03-30-2016, 11:38 AM

My answer was yes. I never look to see if a book has DRM. Non issue for me.
My first thought was to be an average reader and comment what is DRM? Yes, I know what it is.
My second thought was there is a DRM out on the interstate.
See http://www.thedrmcompanies.com
But then I realized you aren't talking about books needing or not needing pipe.

ekbell · 03-30-2016, 11:39 AM

I voted no as without the ability to remove DRM, I'm unlikely to even bother looking. It's why I don't check out the books in the Apple Store.

If there was a book I particularly wanted to read I'd do as I do with books priced above my willingness to pay, check the library. I'm lucky to live in an area with a sizable library where they solved the desire to make the branch libraries community 'living rooms' with more open space and lots of computers by warehousing books (accessible by request) rather then selling.

Atunah · 03-30-2016, 12:04 PM

Pretty much most of what I read had DRM on it.

If I could not back them up anymore, I would not buy anywhere but Amazon. Of all the places, I trust them most to stick around the longest and not leave me hanging in the case of doom.

I think I would though drift even more to the library to get my ebooks and those that aren't at the library I would put on wishlist for price reduction and then buy them.

I read for years kindle books with DRM and never knew anything about Alf so its not like it killed me then. Now all those books are freed, but I will still read what I want to read, even if that is not an option anymore. Like I said, what I want to read, tends to have DRM as it will be mostly with publishers. There is no substitute for the stuff I want to read.

I'll deal with whatever comes. I just want to read in the end. Even if I felt a bit better having a back up of the books I bought. Its not a deal breaker overall. But only with kindle books. I would never buy a epub anywhere.

GeoffR · 03-30-2016, 01:18 PM

I wouldn't buy any ebook with DRM that I couldn't remove. I'd continue to buy DRM-free ebooks and borrow from the public library, but for the ebooks which were only available with unremovable DRM I would buy the paper version instead (mostly second-hand.)

Cosimo · 03-30-2016, 02:27 PM

Yes.

I don't check the DRM status before I buy a book and I don't really care. If I were to lose my Kobo library I would switch to Kindle, re-buy my 'must have' books, and carry on from there.

Purple Lady · 03-30-2016, 03:52 PM

I wouldn't buy any book with drm that I couldn't remove. Formatting on the first books I bought made me learn to strip drm and reformat to suit me. The book that drove me to this had huge side margins that I found so annoying I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading.

I no longer have must read authors since the price fixing, so that's not a problem for me. If I can't get a book at the library or in a form that drm can be removed I simply won't read it. I have enough books I haven't read yet to last me a lifetime anyway. I will never read paper books anymore because the font size is too small and the size and weight are too much.

View Poll Results: Would you purchase ebooks if they had DRM that couldn't be removed?
Yes	21	14.79%
No	121	85.21%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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03-30-2016, 10:07 AM	#19
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	We've just seen the B&N debacle in the UK, which is just the latest in a series. As I write this, Paul has a thread where he has been trying for many months in vain to get Amazon to state its policy on access to content after an account is closed. And of course there was the whole 1984 debacle. Amazon is a great company with great customer service but it is not perfect. And the others don't even come close. This alone is a good reason to think twice about buying ebooks if DRM cannot be removed. I should add that I have no objection to so-called 'Social DRM", which I personally don't classify as DRM at all.

03-30-2016, 10:10 AM	#20
dixieknits Addict Posts: 283 Karma: 1011418 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Kindle 3, Nook Color	Yes, I would buy, but would expect the seller, Amazon, Nook or whoever to improve their reading aps. Many more choices of formatting are needed for me. Bolding letters at night, line spacing, margins, etc and yes I really like page numbers.

03-30-2016, 10:58 AM	#22
latepaul Wizard Posts: 1,264 Karma: 10203040 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: a variety (mostly kindles and kobos)	I'm voting yes for reasons already stated by others (occasional "must read" book, most books I won't re-read) however it's worth pointing out that no DRM can be uncrackable. Or rather there's always going to be the "analogue hole".

03-30-2016, 11:38 AM	#25
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	My answer was yes. I never look to see if a book has DRM. Non issue for me. My first thought was to be an average reader and comment what is DRM? Yes, I know what it is. My second thought was there is a DRM out on the interstate. See http://www.thedrmcompanies.com But then I realized you aren't talking about books needing or not needing pipe.

03-30-2016, 11:39 AM	#26
ekbell Guru Posts: 603 Karma: 12345678 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Canada Device: none	I voted no as without the ability to remove DRM, I'm unlikely to even bother looking. It's why I don't check out the books in the Apple Store. If there was a book I particularly wanted to read I'd do as I do with books priced above my willingness to pay, check the library. I'm lucky to live in an area with a sizable library where they solved the desire to make the branch libraries community 'living rooms' with more open space and lots of computers by warehousing books (accessible by request) rather then selling.

03-30-2016, 12:04 PM	#27
Atunah Wizard Posts: 1,817 Karma: 23400001 Join Date: May 2012 Location: USA Device: K1/K3/BasicK Voyage/Oasis1/Oasis3	Pretty much most of what I read had DRM on it. If I could not back them up anymore, I would not buy anywhere but Amazon. Of all the places, I trust them most to stick around the longest and not leave me hanging in the case of doom. I think I would though drift even more to the library to get my ebooks and those that aren't at the library I would put on wishlist for price reduction and then buy them. I read for years kindle books with DRM and never knew anything about Alf so its not like it killed me then. Now all those books are freed, but I will still read what I want to read, even if that is not an option anymore. Like I said, what I want to read, tends to have DRM as it will be mostly with publishers. There is no substitute for the stuff I want to read. I'll deal with whatever comes. I just want to read in the end. Even if I felt a bit better having a back up of the books I bought. Its not a deal breaker overall. But only with kindle books. I would never buy a epub anywhere.

03-30-2016, 01:18 PM	#28
GeoffR Wizard Posts: 3,821 Karma: 19162882 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Te Riu-a-Māui Device: Kobo Glo	I wouldn't buy any ebook with DRM that I couldn't remove. I'd continue to buy DRM-free ebooks and borrow from the public library, but for the ebooks which were only available with unremovable DRM I would buy the paper version instead (mostly second-hand.)

03-30-2016, 02:27 PM	#29
Cosimo Groupie Posts: 160 Karma: 3337854 Join Date: Jun 2014 Device: Kobo Glo HD	Yes. I don't check the DRM status before I buy a book and I don't really care. If I were to lose my Kobo library I would switch to Kindle, re-buy my 'must have' books, and carry on from there.

03-30-2016, 03:52 PM	#30
Purple Lady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,698 Karma: 16542228 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Device: Huawei MediaPad M5, LG V30, Boyue T80S, Nexus 7 LTE, K3 3G, Fire HD8	I wouldn't buy any book with drm that I couldn't remove. Formatting on the first books I bought made me learn to strip drm and reformat to suit me. The book that drove me to this had huge side margins that I found so annoying I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading. I no longer have must read authors since the price fixing, so that's not a problem for me. If I can't get a book at the library or in a form that drm can be removed I simply won't read it. I have enough books I haven't read yet to last me a lifetime anyway. I will never read paper books anymore because the font size is too small and the size and weight are too much.

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