Sigil not saving media as part of EPUB

[DiapDealer]

That kind of project is a bit outside of my bailiwick. Just know that popup support is going to very hit or miss--even in supposedly epub3-compliant readers/apps. What works for one might very well break functionality on another. Popup audio players will probably add another nightmarish level of instability.

[Toxaris]

You will need to add the files to Sigil (there is a menu option for that). That will also ensure the OPF file will be updated correctly. I am a bit surprised actually, because if you import a HTML into Sigil all the related files (stylesheets, images, etc) should also be imported automatically and the links adapted. At least that is what I am used to. It could be that this is not the case if you use absolute instead of relative links.

With RegEx it should be easily fixable.

With regards to the project you are working on, it will be a difficult project with high chance that it will not work on all/most platforms.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

I am a bit surprised actually, because if you import a HTML into Sigil all the related files (stylesheets, images, etc) should also be imported automatically and the links adapted. At least that is what I am used to. It could be that this is not the case if you use absolute instead of relative links.

It is definitely the absolute file urls that are the difference here. To Sigil, any url that begins with a protocol prefix is treated as an external reference. External reference urls are never updated/adjusted by by Sigil. "http://www.blah.com" is the same as "file:///c:/blah.jpg" in that regard.

Otherwise, as you said, all css and images usually get pulled in automatically with the html.

Originally Posted by Toxaris

With RegEx it should be easily fixable.

Agreed. Zip, Zap. Absolute is now relative. Two passes at most (one for images and one for audio files).

[JackTrade]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

With regards to the project you are working on, it will be a difficult project with high chance that it will not work on all/most platforms.

As this project is intended for personal/friends & family consumption (otherwise, copyright clearances would be a nightmare), I'm not so concerned about support on a wide range of platforms. What I'm getting more concerned about is the hardware requirements. As I mentioned, I used a small portion of the book to create an epub and imported it into (what I believe is) a fairly robust tablet (Lenovo A10-70f) and loaded it into Gitden Reader. To the limited extent that the media/popup elements worked in Gitden, it appears (now that I have played with it for a number of hours) that the tablet just chocks on the file. It takes a noticable number of seconds for some popup boxes to actually popup, and sometimes the content of the popup appears in the box a good number of seconds later (sometimes after the Close button on the box is pressed). If that's indicative of the hardware needs of a multimedia file like this, it would probably work (to the extent it does as a software matter) only on 2-in-1 tablet/laptop combos with I3 or better/8 GB ram hardware.

Imagine what would have happened had I tried to incorporate a video file as well...

[BetterRed]

Warning Heresy Ahead

@JackTrade - if all your 'friends and family' have Android devices you could give them an app rather than epub.

If you get a decent development tool, creating multimedia Android apps, especially for a fault-tolerant, single-platform, closed user-group, is not that hard. Development is easier, hence faster, and more fun than creating multimedia ePubs. And simpler for the users - they just install Jack's Masterclass.

BR

[JackTrade]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Warning Heresy Ahead

@JackTrade - if all your 'friends and family' have Android devices you could give them an app rather than epub.

If you get a decent development tool, creating multimedia Android apps, especially for a fault-tolerant, single-platform, closed user-group, is not that hard. Development is easier, hence faster, and more fun than creating multimedia ePubs. And simpler for the users - they just install Jack's Masterclass.

BR

That's an excellent idea, really! I never occured to me to do that. Thanks!

So, in your opinion, what would "a decent development tool" be for someone who is a total newbie to Android development?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JackTrade

As this project is intended for personal/friends & family consumption (otherwise, copyright clearances would be a nightmare), I'm not so concerned about support on a wide range of platforms. What I'm getting more concerned about is the hardware requirements. As I mentioned, I used a small portion of the book to create an epub and imported it into (what I believe is) a fairly robust tablet (Lenovo A10-70f) and loaded it into Gitden Reader. To the limited extent that the media/popup elements worked in Gitden, it appears (now that I have played with it for a number of hours) that the tablet just chocks on the file. It takes a noticable number of seconds for some popup boxes to actually popup, and sometimes the content of the popup appears in the box a good number of seconds later (sometimes after the Close button on the box is pressed). If that's indicative of the hardware needs of a multimedia file like this, it would probably work (to the extent it does as a software matter) only on 2-in-1 tablet/laptop combos with I3 or better/8 GB ram hardware.

Imagine what would have happened had I tried to incorporate a video file as well...

Well, the problem is, you're not making an eBook. You can call it an eBook from now until hell freezes over, but it's not. This is more like that harebrained "Immersedition" thing, that everybody thought was going to be The Next Big Thing, which fizzled out like 3-day old birthday candles on a decrepit cake. Popups, media, yadda-yadda.

The bottom line is: this isn't what eBooks DO. While yes, eBooks are fundamentally small portable websites, they're not multimedia centers that can do everything, and honestly, that's not what most eBook readers seem to want, so there's bupkus development in that direction. The only company that keeps pushing that stuff is Apple, and I'm pretty sure that even they've learned their lesson about the difference between an eBook and an app.

I'm with Red. You need an app, not an eBook. We make eBooks commercially, and I wouldn't take on that project, not for any amount of money, simply because I don't see it working on the available devices. It's not viable. Not in the current state of the industry, tech, etc.

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Warning Heresy Ahead

@JackTrade - if all your 'friends and family' have Android devices you could give them an app rather than epub.

If you get a decent development tool, creating multimedia Android apps, especially for a fault-tolerant, single-platform, closed user-group, is not that hard. Development is easier, hence faster, and more fun than creating multimedia ePubs. And simpler for the users - they just install Jack's Masterclass.

BR

Yup, I'm with him. I can't guesstimate which app creators/framework would work best for you. The guys here will probably have a good list, though.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by JackTrade

That's an excellent idea, really! I never occured to me to do that. Thanks!

So, in your opinion, what would "a decent development tool" be for someone who is a total newbie to Android development?

I use Unity, but that was a decision dictated by what my colleague knew from working in defence, game, and MSM and a set-in-concrete project deadline. We also had to target IOS and Android.

Unity is a $35-125/month subscription service, my 'seat' expires in a couple of months, it won't be renewed. IMO it would be massive overkill, especially for your first project. I only know a fraction of it.

I would favour a 'native development tool' as opposed to a 'web app development tool', the former is Java centric, the latter is HTML/CSS centric. Infoworld is a good resource for reviews of app development tools.

I won't replace Unity in the short term, if/when I need something I'll have a look then, like apps themselves, the development tools often have a short half-life.

BR

[JackTrade]

Originally Posted by Hitch

This is more like that harebrained "Immersedition" thing, that everybody thought was going to be The Next Big Thing, which fizzled out like 3-day old birthday candles on a decrepit cake. Popups, media, yadda-yadda.

Wow, there, Hitch! Please, don't hold back now, let us all know how you really feel about this

Substantively, however:

Originally Posted by Hitch

The bottom line is: this isn't what eBooks DO. While yes, eBooks are fundamentally small portable websites, they're not multimedia centers that can do everything, and honestly, that's not what most eBook readers seem to want, so there's bupkus development in that direction.

I'm beginning to realize that. As I mentioned before, I'm working on this project as a hobby; in the classic entrepreneurial mode , I saw a need (mine, plus a few friends/family) and decided to meet it and, in the process, learn about CSS, HTML and EPUBs. But the more I tinker with it, the more convinced I am that, at least for this type of projects, EPUBs are not the proper platform. And, possibly, because of the heavy toll it takes on the hardware, Android tablets themselves are not the right platform either.

Originally Posted by Hitch

We make eBooks commercially, and I wouldn't take on that project, not for any amount of money, simply because I don't see it working on the available devices. It's not viable. Not in the current state of the industry, tech, etc.

As a side note here, re the commercial value of this type of project: one day, the hardware and software will catch up to the demands. Possibly more appropriate for university/academic/textbook type publishers - these things are excellent for music (or, when the hardware is really there, film) analysis, replacing today's abstract references to that snippet at the end of the second movement in Mahler's third symphony, or the mise-en-scene of the opening scene in Fellini's La Dolce Vita, or whatever. But, as I mentioned before, the show stopper for these will be the need to coordinate copyright clearances with multiple IP owners. And that's a pity, IMO.

[JackTrade]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

I would favour a 'native development tool' as opposed to a 'web app development tool', the former is Java centric, the latter is HTML/CSS centric. Infoworld is a good resource for reviews of app development tools.


BR

Will definitely do that. Though I may have to let my brain cool down a bit - the massive amount of new information I had to process up to now will probably be nothing compared with what is waiting for me down that road...

Thanks, BR.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by JackTrade

And, possibly, because of the heavy toll it takes on the hardware, Android tablets themselves are not the right platform either.

I question that

A good friend of mine composes sonatas using her iPad on her train commute to and from the Sydney Con - 'two pianos in a wheat silo in F minor' The app my colleague developed for Android has an audio/video VR component, which users view with Google Cardboard. Journalists edit the videos (slice and splice) they just shot on their GoPro on their iPhone before they upload them.

Any 'heavy toll' will be battery related, how long it lasts, time to recharge etc.

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JackTrade

Wow, there, Hitch! Please, don't hold back now, let us all know how you really feel about this

Given that I had to hear about it for months, particularly from a client that thought she had a massive use for it (which, of course, wasn't), it's amazing I'm that mellow about it.

Substantively, however:



I'm beginning to realize that. As I mentioned before, I'm working on this project as a hobby; in the classic entrepreneurial mode , I saw a need (mine, plus a few friends/family) and decided to meet it and, in the process, learn about CSS, HTML and EPUBs. But the more I tinker with it, the more convinced I am that, at least for this type of projects, EPUBs are not the proper platform. And, possibly, because of the heavy toll it takes on the hardware, Android tablets themselves are not the right platform either.

Hmmm...see Red's post, below.

As a side note here, re the commercial value of this type of project: one day, the hardware and software will catch up to the demands. Possibly more appropriate for university/academic/textbook type publishers - these things are excellent for music (or, when the hardware is really there, film) analysis, replacing today's abstract references to that snippet at the end of the second movement in Mahler's third symphony, or the mise-en-scene of the opening scene in Fellini's La Dolce Vita, or whatever. But, as I mentioned before, the show stopper for these will be the need to coordinate copyright clearances with multiple IP owners. And that's a pity, IMO.

I still think you're talking app, not eBook. Yes, yes, we've all seen that both Apple and Amazon have their own fixed-layout "textbook" options, which enable embedding video and audio, and all that...but those are very limited in terms of WHERE they can be watched, device-wise.

There's always a tradeoff. Battery life being a crucial part of that. Nobody wants a portable tablet that effectively isn't, because the advent of some Immersedition-style thing sucks such battery life out of it that you have to watch/read it plugged-in. Nobody wants that.

It will take, I think, some strides in long-life batteries that will fit in one of those, before you see the type of whiz-bang app/book you are envisioning. It's all well and good to make a Yellow Submarine, as a demo app, that looks fancy but isn't, in terms of multi-media (all the songs are linked--not embedded); it's another altogether to make it wth everything but the kitchen sink.

There may come some type of hybrid thing. An AppBook, or somesuch.

My personal feelings about the whole multimedia experience is that it plays into the whole loss of attention span problem. Millions of people somehow managed to struggle through and learn to read, write, debate, etc., sans multimedia. Do I see it as a possibly really good thing, for, say, "how to" books? How to cook, how to make a birdhouse, and so on? Sure. Do I think that there's some need for them? Possibly. I'm just not sure that all the dog-and-pony-show trash that we are accustomed to seeing really needs to be used in a classroom.

And, lastly: what I do see are more Immersedition-type things--where the popups aren't informational. Where they're either "informational" in the sense of the story ("Irma really wasn't of Hungarian descent, as she claimed; her grandmother was a White Russian, escaped from her homeland during the 1918 uprising..."), OR, more likely, they're as were the ones in the Immersedition--ads, to sell things. Links to webstores for HE merchandise--Chanel, Dior, Guerlain, Louboutin, etc.--and selling the product placement to the highest bidder ("Irma pulled off her Louboutins, and tucked her heels beneath her.")

And that? That I can damn sure live without. And honestly, I don't see how you could police it, once it starts.

Hitch