MobileRead Administration: New years reading categories

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here's the summery as I've read it.

We have two classic categories. We've already used one. The next is coming up in December. Everyone so far who has chimed in has agreed to do away with the second classic. Nobody has spoken up saying to keep it.

Originally Posted by sun surfer

I like the categories the way they are now.

I like two months of classics and don't see a need to define "classic"; we've done well enough without a definition already.

Originally Posted by issybird

Off the top of my head, what I'd like is to retain two classic months, but make one pre-20th century and one 20th-century only--if a change is felt necessary.

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

On the subject of classics. Yes, the term does mean of a certain age and of a level of quality and importance that enough people still know the book and will nominate it and vote for it.
<snip>
Anyway looking at the list it does not look at all broken.

The kindest interpretation I can put on the assertion in the top post is that you couldn't be bothered to go back a page and check. Did you just assume that everyone must agree with you? Because surely you couldn't have deliberately tried to mislead everyone about the nature of the consensus?

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here's the summery as I've read it.

We have two classic categories. We've already used one. The next is coming up in December. Everyone so far who has chimed in has agreed to do away with the second classic. Nobody has spoken up saying to keep it. So in that case given how classic is not a good category and we botched it last time since a classic is not just public domain and/or old. So now we have a month with no topic. What do we want that topic to be?

I don't think I've chimed in, but I like the current list. Please don't change it.

[John F]

Could we maybe edit the first post so it contains the current years reading categories (or maybe a link in the first post)?

Thanks.

[VioletVal]

I like the current list of categories, but if we agree to change the second classic category, I would suggest changing it to historical fiction.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, that would be way better then a classic especially if we cannot have the proper definition of classic.

You are welcome to not participate in the second classic month if is rubs you the wrong way.

BOb

[John F]

How about instead of a classic, we make it any classic that is part of a series, and it can't be the first book in the series, just for JSWolf.

[Phogg]

Y'all are being snarky. Next you will make it Gothic Romance classics and start top posting...

Originally Posted by John F

How about we instead of a classic, we make it any classic that is part of a series, and it can't be the first book in the series, just for JSWolf.

[Elfwreck]

I wouldn't mind seeing two different definitions of "classic"--perhaps one "Berne convention public domain" and one "still in print after 40 years" (I can deal with two generations as a minimum for a "classic"), which would be strongly overlapping sets that would still encourage different types of recommendations.

[Nyssa]

Can we put it to a vote?

Something along the lines of "Should we replace the second 'Classic' with another genre?":

No. I like it the way it is.
Yes. I would like to have Science - Non Fiction instead
Yes. I would like to have Historical Romance instead
etc.
etc.

Yes. I will explain in the comments

That way we can see where are more active members stand, and we have a better chance of choosing whether to participate or not.

I, personally, agree with Jon in that I do not like having 2 classics in the year. I have learned that it is not my genre of choice. I've already said I would support a 2nd Non-Fiction month with a specified sub-genre. However, I am sure there are other genres I have yet to consider.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I, personally, agree with Jon in that I do not like having 2 classics in the year.

Does Jon ever participate? Or does he just like being a gadfly?

For me, personally, there's a lot of overlap in SF & F, and I don't especially like those genres. But I know others do, so I can try to broaden my horizons a bit or step back, in any given SF or F month. I think the list as it stands now does a good job of accomodating most tastes fairly.

This whole dustup smells a whole lot like one person trying to railroad through his own preference and in the process ignoring/misrepresenting any opposition.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by issybird

Does Jon ever participate? Or does he just like being a gadfly?

For me, personally, there's a lot of overlap in SF & F, and I don't especially like those genres. But I know others do, so I can try to broaden my horizons a bit or step back, in any given SF or F month. I think the list as it stands now does a good job of accomodating most tastes fairly.

This whole dustup smells a whole lot like one person trying to railroad through his own preference and in the process ignoring/misrepresenting any opposition.

Ok, except there are some of us who would like to see a change. So, we should automatically be ignored just because Jon made the suggestion?

This is not the first time I have said that I would like to see another genre to replace the 2nd "classic" option and I am open to trying just about anything else.

Also, I have suggested a poll, so if the results come back that more people want to keep things the way they are then so be it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Does Jon ever participate? Or does he just like being a gadfly?

For me, personally, there's a lot of overlap in SF & F, and I don't especially like those genres. But I know others do, so I can try to broaden my horizons a bit or step back, in any given SF or F month. I think the list as it stands now does a good job of accommodating most tastes fairly.

This whole dustup smells a whole lot like one person trying to railroad through his own preference and in the process ignoring/misrepresenting any opposition.

I do participate. But because I've mentioned that we have two classics when we have enough trouble with just one of them. The problem is that classic way way too broad a classification. And to narrow it down to just a small subset is limiting what we are allowed to nominate. What's wrong with a modern classic where the book is still in print and the author still alive? A modern classic doesn't have to be old and in the public domain with the author being dead.

If we change December to something else, we won't have to have this issue crop up yet again. How about a free-for-all where the nominations can be any category as long as the nomination was a book voted on that lost in the past 11 months?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Ok, except there are some of us who would like to see a change. So, we should automatically be ignored just because Jon made the suggestion?

This is not the first time I have said that I would like to see another genre to replace the 2nd "classic" option and I am open to trying just about anything else.

Also, I have suggested a poll, so if the results come back that more people want to keep things the way they are then so be it.

My issue with this is that it's not a wholesale reevaluation of the categories, it's people trying to tweak it at the margins to make it more to their own taste. The difficulty is that tweaks it away from the interests of others in the process. I don't think having two months of classics invalid, just as I don't think having two months of SF/F is invalid. One appeals to me, one doesn't, but I think both, especially in tandem, help the book club appeal to as wide a range as possible.

Why a poll just about two months' of classics? Why not a poll for the whole megillah? Because you can't poll for everything, all the time. The list can't be ideal for everyone, and some will never be happy. This is just my opinion, but I don't think the current list is broke.

Obviously one can share an opinion with anyone, no matter what his or her perceived honesty; the opinion is valid if honest in itself. But when you cite your own opinion in support of another, it's taken as part of the same campaign. Unfortunately, said campaign involved misrepresenting what was said in the thread, ignoring (your word) what earlier posters said and claiming a consensus that didn't exist. Sometimes you have to be picky about your standard bearer. I didn't like having my opinion consigned to oblivion, either.

My chief complaint about the whole business at this point is the dismal ratio between participation in complaining (about the categories, individual book selections, even polling and selection procedures) versus actual participation in reading and contributing to end of period discussions.

Originally Posted by issybird

Does Jon ever participate? Or does he just like being a gadfly?

In the time I have been participating no. That is his participation has been limited to complaining.

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Can we put it to a vote?

Something along the lines of "Should we replace the second 'Classic' with another genre?":

No. I like it the way it is.
Yes. I would like to have Science - Non Fiction instead
Yes. I would like to have Historical Romance instead
etc.
etc.

Yes. I will explain in the comments

That way we can see where are more active members stand, and we have a better chance of choosing whether to participate or not.

I, personally, agree with Jon in that I do not like having 2 classics in the year. I have learned that it is not my genre of choice. I've already said I would support a 2nd Non-Fiction month with a specified sub-genre. However, I am sure there are other genres I have yet to consider.

Regarding a poll, should a change only require a majority of aggregate yes votes (i.e. summation of all yes alternates > no)? Or should the yes votes for the new selected category be required to exceed the no votes?

Left to general popular preferences, as judged for instance from the Hey!! Let's get some action going! What are we reading? thread we would likely have at least ten to eleven months of Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Crime/Mystery, and one month of everything else. Frankly, at least for me, that would pretty much end my participation. And I am not sure it would that much increase discussion participation by others who at present do not do so.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do participate. But because I've mentioned that we have two classics when we have enough trouble with just one of them. The problem is that classic way way too broad a classification. And to narrow it down to just a small subset is limiting what we are allowed to nominate. What's wrong with a modern classic where the book is still in print and the author still alive? A modern classic doesn't have to be old and in the public domain with the author being dead.

Sigh. I'm not willing to restart the discussion of there being no such thing as a modern (recent) “classic.”

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If we change December to something else, we won't have to have this issue crop up yet again. How about a free-for-all where the nominations can be any category as long as the nomination was a book voted on that lost in the past 11 months?

You mean of we change December to something other than classics you will no longer complain about anything? And please check out the current category for January: Current list for year.

[HomeInMyShoes]

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