Amazon Defends Pedophile Book

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You can't have it both ways, KC.

There is no such thing as "total freedom to do what you want"

There must be checks and balances in any civilized society.

You can quote taking away our freedoms and rights all you like.....but at the end of the day......if you support Amazons right to sell this book......you are on 'that' side.

Kenny didn't say "total freedom to do what you want", so I don't know where you got that.

It's a shame that you are mixing up the book and the act. The 2 are not the same.

I think they should be allowed to sell this book.

I also think they should be allowed to sell Mein Kampf, but that doesn't mean I think the Holocaust was a good idea.

I also think they should be allowed to sell the political tracts of the Weathermen Underground, but that doesn't mean I think we should go blow up the government.

I also think everyone should be allowed to buy and sell guns, but that doesn't mean I think you should go kill someone.

There's a huge difference between the tool and the act. This book,by itself, does no harm. It's the act that does the harm, and it's already illegal.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Your neighbor bought the book, decides to try out what is contain in it and decides to use your child. Now how do you feel about the book?

I still think the book is full of some offensive material, as I said before, and I will continue to not purchase it, as I said before. The matter of the creepy neighbor is a separate issue entirely.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's really not true. Amazon require that you are an adult in order to create an account, and you need an account in order to download material to a Kindle. I don't actually know of ANY bookstore, physical or online, which restricts access to material that is unsuitable for children. Rightly or wrong, unlike films and video games, books do not carry content classifications, and it's really not a bookstore's responsibility to create such a classification system.

True, but I have been in magazine stores where the Adult mags are put in a restricted area. Also in many supermarkets here there are "modest" shields over the covers of many magazines -- including those like Vogue, Playboy, etc.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Your neighbor bought the book, decides to try out what is contain in it and decides to use your child. Now how do you feel about the book?

It's not the book's fault. Individuals are responsible for their own actions and can't shift the blame to an inanimate object or the ideas of others.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

True, but I have been in magazine stores where the Adult mags are put in a restricted area. Also in many supermarkets here their are "modest" shields over the covers of many magazines -- including those like Vogue, Playboy, etc.

Magazines - at least here in the UK - actually DO have an age rating, and it's illegal to sell to someone underage. Books, however, do not.

[rogue_red]

Originally Posted by kennyc

While I absolutely agree with the first part of this. The ability of a "child with a kindle" to download and read this is quite misleading. The kindle must be purchased by someone and much be registered with Amazon and have a credit card on file. Now maybe this kindle and credit card belongs to the parents of the "child" and if so then they should be responsible for the activities of the "child" using their credit card.

I have kindle for PC (free) and the pedo ebook offers a free sample that I was able to download to my PC without a creditcard. Kindle for Pc is a single application/multiple user program so in theory anyone using my computer can download free kindle books and samples.

BUT

I do agree that the ultimate responsibility is the parents but parents are not perfect nor are they able to keep tabs on everything all the time. That's why Amazon need to share the responsibility.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

I'm not sure why this is pitchfork-worthy. If Amazon wants to cull their offerings to promote an image, that's fine and dandy. If not, it's fine and dandy. It's a book, probably full of some offensive material. Just don't buy it.

Because it's a witch hunt, and I mean that in the full negative connotation. There's a certain aspect of the American psyche where we get caught up in a moral outrage.

Do you recall the mass child sex abuse trials of the late 1980s and early 1990s? The vast majority of the cases turned out to have no basis in fact. Everyone (including cops and prosecutors) got caught up in the hysteria. In a lot of cases, there was no actual evidence and testimony was actually fabricated by the investigators.

And yes, the Salem witch trials and the mass child sex abuse trials did have about the same basis in fact, as well as the same root societal cause.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Your neighbor bought the book, decides to try out what is contain in it and decides to use your child. Now how do you feel about the book?

Do you really think the book made him decide to do it? Seriously, is that your argument?

Pfff.

[abookreader]

I think the point is - this book was easy and nearly universal in saying "yeah that is disgusting." So, should Amazon and other retailers now scrutinize their catalogs and start making judgment calls on all books that deal with Pedophilia? Fiction isn't relevent? Why? There is a long history in literature of using fiction to promote ideas and spread ideology.

Anybody ever read this book? It disgusted me beyond all bounds and it includes graphic descriptions of sex between a teen boy and a mid-thirties adult male. I tore my copy into shreds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running...s_%28memoir%29

Not only was it widely available at all retailers, they made it into a movie. I've never heard of any outcry or push for retailers to remove it from their shelves.

These are not easy lines to draw.

[rogue_red]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Kenny didn't say "total freedom to do what you want", so I don't know where you got that.

It's a shame that you are mixing up the book and the act. The 2 are not the same.

I think they should be allowed to sell this book.

They are ALLOWED to sell the book. They CHOOSE not to.

I also think they should be allowed to sell Mein Kampf, but that doesn't mean I think the Holocaust was a good idea.

I also think they should be allowed to sell the political tracts of the Weathermen Underground, but that doesn't mean I think we should go blow up the government.

I also think everyone should be allowed to buy and sell guns, but that doesn't mean I think you should go kill someone.

The argument isn't that this guy should not be allowed to have a penis. I think every man should be allowed a penis but that doesn't mean I advocate its misuse.

There's a huge difference between the tool and the act. This book,by itself, does no harm. It's the act that does the harm, and it's already illegal.

I think you have totally under estimated the power of literature.

[Connallmac]

Originally Posted by rogue_red

I have kindle for PC (free) and the pedo ebook offers a free sample that I was able to download to my PC without a creditcard. Kindle for Pc is a single application/multiple user program so in theory anyone using my computer can download free kindle books and samples.

BUT

I do agree that the ultimate responsibility is the parents but parents are not perfect nor are they able to keep tabs on everything all the time. That's why Amazon need to share the responsibility.

There are plenty of programs that you can purchase to filter the content that comes on to YOUR computer.

Why do parents continue to demand that we child proof the entire world for their convenience? Freedoms also have corresponding responsibilities, one of which is taking the time and effort to raise your own children.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

From the V&R: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ostcount=13042

I'm sorry DGM but you do not get to decide what others publish or read regardless of whether you want to take responsibility for it or not. Freedom of speech is guaranteed (at least in the U.S.A.).

You can yell and stamp your feet and protest all you want, but you can't stop it.

Originally Posted by kennyc

Then we're clear.

Again you're right - you can't have it both ways. You can't have freedom of speech and restrict it.

You seem to want to be the 'decider' of who can publish or say what. I disagree, I say the law of the land gets to decide.

If the people decide to eliminate freedom of speech then it will be at the peril of all that has been done for the last 200+ years.

It really is very clear.

once again, no rights have been violated. the government has not been involved in restricting his ability to publish his book. the furor is over Amazon being the selling agent

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

I still think the book is full of some offensive material, as I said before, and I will continue to not purchase it, as I said before. The matter of the creepy neighbor is a separate issue entirely.

But if that neighbor would not have have done that act if he had not bought the book, what then?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Do you really think the book made him decide to do it? Seriously, is that your argument?

Pfff.

You never know what might happen.

[HarryT]

Jon,

It is the role of lawmakers to decide what material it is, or is not, legal to publish. Amazon provide a digital publishing platform; they don't act as a guardian of public morality, and I'd be extremely uncomfortable to see them start doing so.