Literary One Thousand and One Nights

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

I know the sections you mean in the Haddawy. I thought maybe they were verses from the Quran? Or some other similar famous verses during the periods this was being written?

The verses are definitely not from the Qur'an. BTW, in 2010 Islamist lawyers in Egypt have called for Arabian Nights to be banned.

Many verses in the book are actually by famous poets, for example the very first verse in the book is by Jarir ibn ‘Atiya.
Unfortunately, several translators tried to match the original rhyme scheme at the expense of readability.

Here are three translations of the same poem:

Originally Posted by John Payne

She shines out in the dusk, and lo! the day is here,
And all the trees flower forth with blossoms bright and clear,
The sun from out her brows arises, and the moon,
When she unveils her face, cloth hide for shame and fear.
All living things prostrate themselves before her feet,
When she unshrouds and all her hidden charms appear;
And when she flashes forth the lightnings of her glance,
She maketh eyes to rain, like showers, with many a tear.

Originally Posted by Richard Burton

She rose like the morn as she shone through the night
And she gilded the grove with her gracious sight.
From her radiance the sun taketh increase when
She unveileth and shameth the moonshine bright.
Bow down all beings between her hands
As she showeth charms with her veil undight.
And she floodeth cities with torrent tears
When she flasheth her look of levin light.

Originally Posted by Malcolm C. Lyons

She shone in the darkness, and day appeared
As the trees shed brightness over her.
Her radiance makes suns rise and shine,
While, as for moons, she covers them in shame.
When veils are rent and she appears,
All things bow down before her.
As lightning flashes from her sanctuary,
A rain of tears floods down.

[Bookpossum]

Thanks Doitsu. I don't know the original of course, but the third one, not striving for rhymes, seems to me to be by far the best. I had a quick look in the Haddawy version I am reading, but couldn't find it. Which story is it in?

[fantasyfan]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

The verses are definitely not from the Qur'an. BTW, in 2010 Islamist lawyers in Egypt have called for Arabian Nights to be banned.

Many verses in the book are actually by famous poets, for example the very first verse in the book is by Jarir ibn ‘Atiya.
Unfortunately, several translators tried to match the original rhyme scheme at the expense of readability.

In his The Arabian Nights: A Companion Irwin discusses the issue of the readability of translation of poetic passages.

Rhymed prose, as well as poetry, was used to convey a heightened emotional experience. He then quotes a particularly ugly example from Burton.

"But in the stress and stowre I get sundry grievous wounds and sore; and since that time. I have passed on his back three days without tasting food or sleeping aught, so that my strength is down brought and the world is become to me as naught."

Irwin continues to note that the "closeness and profusion of rhyming and metrical patterns cannot be mimicked in English without serious strain." Further there is a "penchant for punning and word play." Thus, a translator generally finds it nearly impossible to get a multiplicity of senses.

" Again and again, a translator will find he can translate one sense of a couplet, but only at the cost of sacrificing a second sense which the author also intended and which gave force and wit to his verse."

He concludes:

"Although there is a lot of poetry in the Nights and its protagonists have little difficulty in spouting it, even when faced with shipwreck, rape or death, little of the poetry which features in the stories appears to have any direct bearing on the action. Understandably, then some translators, notably Littmann, who produced the best German translation, and Dawood, who translated a selection of the stories for Penguin Books, took the decision to omit poetry in the Nights altogether."

By the way I sampled this book having read Dr Drib's post and I would recommend it for anyone who wants a modern study of the context of The Arabian Nights. It is adding a great deal to my enjoyment.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

I had a quick look in the Haddawy version I am reading, but couldn't find it. Which story is it in?

It's in the story before the first night. In the Lyons translation, the poem was inserted before the following sentence:

Originally Posted by Malcolm C. Lyons

The jinni looked at her and said: ‘Mistress of the nobly born, whom I snatched away on your wedding night, I want to sleep for a while.’

Apparently it was added at a later time, since the Haddawy translation, which is based on the critical version compiled by Muhsin Mahdi, doesn't contain this poem. It'd would have to be inserted immediately before this sentence:

Originally Posted by Husain Haddawy

He [...] looked at her, saying, “Mistress of all noble women, you whom I carried away on your wedding night, I would like to sleep a little.”

Originally Posted by fantasyfan

He then quotes a particularly ugly example from Burton.

That is indeed a very bad translation:

Here's the Lyons translation of the same passage:

Originally Posted by Malcolm C. Lyons

In the heat of the fight, however, I had been wounded and I have spent three nights without sleeping or enjoying food. My strength has now gone and I am no longer concerned with worldly things.

BTW, there's also a version with 101 nights. Unfortunately, there seem to be only French and German translations.

[fantasyfan]

A Kindle version of 101 Nights in English is available at Amazon UK but is quite expensive ( £22.52).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hundred-Nig...and+one+nights

[Bookpossum]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

It's in the story before the first night. In the Lyons translation, the poem was inserted before the following sentence:



Apparently it was added at a later time, since the Haddawy translation, which is based on the critical version compiled by Muhsin Mahdi, doesn't contain this poem. It'd would have to be inserted immediately before this sentence:





That is indeed a very bad translation:

Here's the Lyons translation of the same passage:


BTW, there's also a version with 101 nights. Unfortunately, there seem to be only French and German translations.

Many thanks Doitsu. The Lyons sounds very good all round.

[fantasyfan]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

Many thanks Doitsu. The Lyons sounds very good all round.

I agree. I think that Dotsu's very informed and enjoyable posts make it clear that it will be worth getting the Lyons version.

As to the 101 Nights, the edition I mentioned is quite new and the first time it has been translated into English. The sample I downloaded gives the excellent introduction by Robert Irwin and a great deal of the opening section by the editor--but no tales. It might be worth thinking about as a future purchase.

UPDATE

Evidently the high price and large file size of this edition is because it is the scholarly version which includes pages of the original Arabic as well as the translation! I suspect that later on a pb will be available as an ebook that will be cheaper and will not include the original MS.

In the meantime, some might be interested in Lyons's book Tales of the Marvellous and News of the Strange. which "is probably the oldest surviving story collection with material in common with the Nights." There is another of those great introductions by Robert Irwin which are filled with interesting observations.

Finally, when this became our choice for the month I had no suspicion that I was once again going to be so completely hypnotised by this amazing collection.

[Bookpossum]

I have finished reading the Haddawy translation, with a break in the middle to read a couple of other books. My feeling is that it should be read over a long period, probably one story at a time, and I think the Lyons translation sounds better than the Haddawy. Unfortunately, my library doesn't have the Lyons.

There were no stories familiar to me in the Haddawy book, and I might have enjoyed it more if they had been included. Stories like Sinbad, Aladdin and Ali Baba are apparently later additions, and at least one is suspected to be the work of the French translator who first brought the stories to Europe.

I may go back and read some of these in the Jonathan Scott translation at a later date, as I quite liked the samples I read from that collection.

I'm glad to have read it, but just sorry I didn't enjoy it as much as fantasyfan has been doing.

[fantasyfan]

I suspect that I am particularly prone to enjoy works like the Nights simply because I enjoy Fantasy in general so much. I can understand that they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

Personally, though, I feel that while there is no doubt but that the Haddawy translation is more readable than the Victorian attempts, what I found lacking in his approach was the exotic otherworldliness that exists in Lane and Burton and which Lyons also has. I felt, too, that he was shooting himself in the foot by refusing to include the "Orphan" tales in Galland which, rightly or not, have become part of the collection and which were included by Scott, Lane, Payne, and Burton.

The first English translation of Galland was the famous "Grub Street" version. Jonathan Scott felt that Galland deserved a more literary approach and his 1811 version is really quite nice. It was and has remained fairly popular.

If you are interested, the Delphi Classics ebook of the Arabian Nights is quite inexpensive and includes the complete translations of Scott, Payne, Burton, Lang and the adaptation by Julia Pardoe. (All are 19th century). Also included is Lane's Arabian Society In The Middle Ages. I think it is a treasure-trove! You could get all of those free as individual ebooks but it's nice to have them in one file and the ebook also has some very nice illustrations.

[Bookpossum]

I do enjoy myths and fairy tales, and reading about them. I love Marina Warner's books. I think it's fair enough that Haddawy was doing a translation of the Syrian manuscript, but I think he was being a bit of a purist to insist that it's the only really authentic version, when a collection of tales like that inevitably grows over time and with the number of countries that are contributing to it. And of course he has done a second volume of the other tales.

The Delphi Classics would certainly be a good one for the enthusiast.

I can recommend Stranger Magic by Marina Warner, which is a quite scholarly study of the stories and their history.

[fantasyfan]

Thank you for that suggestion, Bookpossum. Stranger Magic looks to be a remarkable book! I'll see if I can get it through the library as it's quite expensive in Kindle and Book Depository lists it as unavailable. The latter is a real pity since shipping is free and one gets a brand new book.

It is true that one can get a pb copy for a reasonable price on ABE but there the cost of shipping it to Ireland is prohibitive (e.g. a used pb book=$8.00/ shipping=$20.00 and up )

However, I'll keep it on my radar as it certainly looks intriguing.

I do have a query on a different but related subject. Until this great bookclub came along I knew so little about the wealth of Australian literature. But one writer I had read and admired before that. I have The Ice Is Coming trilogy by Patricia Wrightson and I find it a wonderful fantasy--which I assume is drawn from aboriginal mythology. I personally think her work can be read with equal enjoyment by both children and adults--rather as is the case over here with Lloyd Alexander and C.S.Lewis.

How is she regarded in Australia? I should add that this trilogy is the only thing I have read by her. If you have suggestions for more I would certainly appreciate them.

[Bookpossum]

I'll send you a PM, fantasyfan.

[fantasyfan]

To my delight I found that one can obtain an ebook copy of Sophia Lane Poole's book The Englishwoman In Egypt: Letters from Cairo during residence 1842, 43, 44 with E. W. Lane by his sister from the Internet Archive. While a number of downloads are offered, I have found that one should stick to PDF as the others (including both ePub and mobi) are usually riddled with errors. PDF works reasonably well on the iPad and similar tablets.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by fantasyfan

To my delight I found that one can obtain an ebook copy of Sophia Lane Poole's book The Englishwoman In Egypt: Letters from Cairo during residence 1842, 43, 44 with E. W. Lane by his sister from the Internet Archive. While a number of downloads are offered, I have found that one should stick to PDF as the others (including both ePub and mobi) are usually riddled with errors. PDF works reasonably well on the iPad and similar tablets.

And with Calibre you can often convert to epub or Kindle with old books in pdf format as well.

[fantasyfan]

Originally Posted by crich70

And with Calibre you can often convert to epub or Kindle with old books in pdf format as well.

Thanks--I'll give that a try.