Is it possible to disable dithering?

[Dimos]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Absolutely wrong.. You can only see light reflected from the Eink Layer.And then I asked you to show me a certain text on the Remarkable page, which you could not do.
Conclusion, it is too stupid for me to deal with you.

So if i buy an ipad and use it with a mirror it will become an ereader?

remarkable 2 and onyx note 1 have the same layers..
you can compare the pics and see for yourself..
The difference is night and day

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

But you can change it - eg. to really black.
In this case, the grey levels became darker, but light makes "white" whiter - really white/black.

I don't know what you mean. How do you make a font blacker? AFAIK fonts in neoreader default to totally black, not grey. Also I use ereading apps (Alreader) that allow me to set the font to 000000 and the background to FFFFFF, which I have done.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I don't know what you mean. How do you make a font blacker? AFAIK fonts in neoreader default to totally black, not grey. Also I use ereading apps (Alreader) that allow me to set the font to 000000 and the background to FFFFFF, which I have done.

Change the contrast!

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Change the contrast!

Yes, I've done that for alreader under app optimization. It defaults to max contrast settings anyway. In addition, it seems there is no system-wide option to change contrast, but neoreader apparently defaults to max contrast too. Why would an book readeing app default to anything else.

And yet, the contrast on thye Onyx remains poorer than that of a Kindle 2, which is actually an older generation device. Note that I am doing the comparison without lighting on both devices.

So if the hardware is the same (in fact it should be better on an Onyx Pro, being a later generation) it seems that it must be some other element that is reducing the contrast. I have read that contrast is better on an Onyx than on a Likebook, which is also Android, so that adds some to the possibility that the poorer contrast is due to Android. What I am seeing is not due to a single device-I am seeing it on a Nova and a Nova Pro. The contrast is identical on both.

Edit: I found the system contrast option. I'll test it on two novas to see if it makes a difference to text.

[Pajamaman]

Okay, I played with the Constrast settings with two Novas next to each other.

Using Alreader, I found that the systemwide Contrast setting can be replicated by simply using a bolder font (of the same family). As I understand it, making a font bold does not make it darker, it makes it heavier. To reiterate, I can achieve the same effect I get by applying contrast by using a bolder font. As such, I don't think the Contrast option makes the black blacker.

One way to measure this is to take photos and check the digital color of the pixels. I should also do it in Neoreader as well.

But judging with my eyes alone, I do not think the Contrast option makes black text blacker, only heavier.

[pazos]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Okay, I played with the Constrast settings with two Novas next to each other.

Using Alreader, I found that the systemwide Contrast setting can be replicated by simply using a bolder font (of the same family). As I understand it, making a font bold does not make it darker, it makes it heavier. To reiterate, I can achieve the same effect I get by applying contrast by using a bolder font. As such, I don't think the Contrast option makes the black blacker.

One way to measure this is to take photos and check the digital color of the pixels. I should also do it in Neoreader as well.

But judging with my eyes alone, I do not think the Contrast option makes black text blacker, only heavier.

The contrast settings won't make black pigments more black or white pigments more white. That's nonsense. If a image is #000000 these contrast settings can decide it will be #333333 instead unless constrast is high enough. But the look of pure black and white pixels is effectively done by the EPD pigments.

Also, based on https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...28&postcount=1 they seem to do a nasty job on activities that have their own contrast settings. It could help for most android apps, which are not optimized for a 16gray palette.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by Dimos

It doesn't work that way read post 13.
The software doesn't render shades of gray right..

Looking at the first pair of images, I would say that it is the Remarkable that isn't rendering shades of gray right. It may look "crisper", but it is probably less accurate because of that. The Onyx device shows much more variation in gray shades across the image, an indication that it is trying to keep the extra details in the original colours. So, although you may not like the way the Onyx device converts colours to gray scales, I don't think you can claim that it isn't doing it right.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by pazos

The contrast settings won't make black pigments more black or white pigments more white. That's nonsense. If a image is #000000 these contrast settings can decide it will be #333333 instead unless constrast is high enough. But the look of pure black and white pixels is effectively done by the EPD pigments.

That's right, but:
The built-in lighting means that more light is reflected from bright areas than from darker or even black areas (the light color also plays a role in this).
And this fact increases the contrast - light areas become lighter, dark areas remain dark.
In addition, with a dark frame, light areas appear even lighter than with a light frame, which in turn makes dark areas look darker.
And since all device manufacturers buy both the screen modules and the control units from one manufacturer - they are identical - the only thing left is how much contrast the layers above remove - and each one reduces the contrast by a certain value, while light increases it again .
And these are physical facts - not shown pictures that are falsified by the recordings anyway.

[Dimos]

Originally Posted by rkomar

Looking at the first pair of images, I would say that it is the Remarkable that isn't rendering shades of gray right. It may look "crisper", but it is probably less accurate because of that. The Onyx device shows much more variation in gray shades across the image, an indication that it is trying to keep the extra details in the original colours. So, although you may not like the way the Onyx device converts colours to gray scales, I don't think you can claim that it isn't doing it right.

Look at the second pair of images. You can see that onyx isn't rendering shades of gray right..
The first pair of images show remarkable 1 and onyx note 1.It is pretty clear that remarkable 1 has better contrast but poor shades of gray. But remarkable 2 fixed this. So as you can see here remarkable 2 has both better contrast and better shades of gray than onyx. I think that this has something to do with the android software (doesn't render shades of gray right) .

[rkomar]

I see the same things in the second pair of images that I saw in the first. The Remarkable image has less detail than the Onyx image. I wouldn't call the Remarkable more correct than the Onyx, although I can see that the simplicity can make it more appealing.

I'm not saying you shouldn't like the Remarkable way of displaying the image more, I'm just objecting to your calling the Onyx way incorrect. I think it is more of a matter of liking (i.e. taste) than logic (i.e. objective truth).

[Dimos]

I like the remarkable 2 image more. Anyway i just bought the onyx note 3 so i will do some testing..

[Sevenlives]

In Onyx Neo Reader, (atleast on my NovaPro) if you go under "FORMAT" and then "Contrast", there are some pretty cool levers to tweak in regards to removing watermark (which makes whites prominent), sharpening image, Image Contrast, Text Contrast and Embolden.

Maybe that will help if someone is dissatisfied with the way their images look?

[Pajamaman]

https://ibb.co/LkHSbsN

Sometimes a black or white border can trick the eye, so I removed them. The diiference is shocking. Even more pronounced. The muted shades / tones I have noticed on the Onyx are shown. Are these photos different from each other in some way? I one screen illuminated with a back light and the other not?

[Pajamaman]

I went through the original images and checked the digital values of the shades.

Interestingly, the blacks on the Onyx are generally darker than on the Remarkable. However, the blackest black on the Onyx (end of the bat) is the same as the blackest black on the Remarkable (the A icon on the left toolbar). The Remarkable actuaaly renders blacks in the image lighter than it is capable.

However, where the Remarkable wins hands down is the whites. They are far brighter than the Onyx. I have previously noticed the "greyness" of the Onyx background. It explains the relatively poor contrast of the Onyx compared to non-Android e-readers. It's not a huge difference, but it is significant.

If the hardware is the same, than I suppose the fault is in the software, and quite possibly the dithering that has been mentioned here. Incidentally I have read that the Likebook has worse contrast than the Onyx.

In any case, I like Onyx hardware, but if such better contrast is being achieved on other Android e-readers, then I will definately look hard at alternate devices in the future. Contrast is king, for me. Add to that that Remarkable is respecting OS licensing and releasing sources so that the community can develop, and the Remarkable is looking superior to me on many too many fronts to ignore.

[ottischwenk]

I have shown the first picture on my Likebook Ares and on my Nova 2 - not illuminated because I could not set the same light color and brightness on both devices.
The left picture is from the Likebook Ares, the right from the Nova 2.
In my opinion, the image quality of the Ares is far superior to that of the Nova 2