Paper vs. Kindle Cost

[nekokami]

Our local library accepted our used books when we moved a year ago, but then decided to throw them away. They didn't even want to include them in the monthly book sale to support the library. I picked them up again and took them to a charity store.

I've found a science fiction specialty store a couple of towns away that takes used books and offers store credit. I'm trying to cut down on the number of paper books I have, so I don't know how much I'd use the store credit, but at least at the store probably someone who likes SF will pick them up and read them.

[CCDMan]

Very Interesting! So the general consensus seems to be that:

You get so little for them that they are not really financially worth the trouble to sell. So from a strictly cost Point of View on the books themselves (not including the reader), ebooks are cheaper.

Although much has been made by opponents of the ability to pass paper books on, this seems to be harder than it would appear since libraries and thrift stores are not eager to take them. This may be mostly just to friends and family and then what do they do with them?

Storage of paper is a major issue, as one poster mentioned. I wonder how many books one would re-read anyway? In my case, only coffee table books (which are not threatened at all) and reference works are worth keeping. And the web is already rapidly making the reference works obsolete with or w/o ebooks.

So are these paperbacks ultimately just going to landfills?

[airlik]

There was an article not too long ago about a pair who owned a used book store having a big book-burning. It wasn't a protest, they just had scads and scads of books in storage and no longer had room for them - they couldn't GIVE them away. I'm sure there are markets for them (my mum always bought used books - she read a lot and we couldn't afford new paperbacks... if "new" was the only option there'd have been much less reading going on), but I'm guessing most paperbacks wind up in boxes/storage or the recycle bin when people are done with them. I have to make a decision sometime soon regarding all of mine - I have more books than I know what to do with, boxes and boxes of them from my first 35 years of reading.

However, when it comes to what I'm willing to pay for books... if I really enjoyed a book but don't imagine I'll ever read it again, and probably won't get that nice nostalgic tingle one gets on seeing the spine of a well-loved book on one's shelf, I still like to have the option of giving it to a friend when I'm done. Basically, I treat ebooks as throw-away, like a magazine. The rights you have regarding them are far fewer, and I think the price should accordingly be much less. I'd like to see them just come up with "fair" pricing, whatever that is. Take the cost of a paperback, subtract the distribution costs for the paper (including buying unsold copies back from stores), subtract the cost of printing... then add the cost of coming up with a digital copy and the per-book distribution fee from your selling agency, and charge that.

Anyway, when I look at the books I've purchased from Connect, they tend to be business or one-time-read, throw-away books - ex: The Tipping Point, a couple of travelogues, and some mindless fiction. My only regrets so far have been "I Am America" (the printed version is SO much better) and "The World is Flat" (definitely one to fill with post-its and highlighting), and I ended up buying them twice for that reason. So far, eBooks have cost me MORE money overall than paper due to the double-purchases. I guess I'm in part paying for the convenience of having a small library with me when I travel, but I AM becoming more price-sensitive about ebooks because of the reasons mentioned above.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Although much has been made by opponents of the ability to pass paper books on, this seems to be harder than it would appear since libraries and thrift stores are not eager to take them. This may be mostly just to friends and family and then what do they do with them?

Notice that keeping a paper book in your library 10 years is passing the book on to yourself ten years older. I will not buy a DRM book that is not breakable because I want to be able to read or re-read it or look up things in it many years later.

[CCDMan]

Notice that keeping a paper book in your library 10 years is passing the book on to yourself ten years older.

Huuh? So what? Most folks don't read read most books again anyway so what does that serve aside from taking up storage space?

True, if there is a book I am likely to want to read again or make easily available to visitors, paper MIGHT be better, but this has become maybe 1 out to 30-50 books now that reference is mostly web based.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Huuh? So what? Most folks don't read read most books again anyway so what does that serve aside from taking up storage space?

True, if there is a book I am likely to want to read again or make easily available to visitors, paper MIGHT be better, but this has become maybe 1 out to 30-50 books now that reference is mostly web based.

How do you know what book you want to use 10 years later? Also there are different type of readers and different kind of uses of a book. The argument that just because you cannot see a reason to do something does not mean that this something is worthless or not important.

Most people I know that buy a lot of books reuse them.

[nekokami]

On this forum, so far, about 50% of the participants in the poll I set up do re-read books.

[pilotbob]

OK,

I'll add my two cents to this.

I generally keep all the books I buy... but "mainly" because I can't see throwing away something I just paid $8-$15 for. That said, I also generally do not re-read books that I have already read. There is to much stuff I haven't read out there... to many books, so little time.

That said, one of my sons seems to enjoy what I read and has gone through and read all the books in my library, some more than once. If that library were digital I would like to be able to have that luxury too.

Books I do generally through away are technical books which get obsolete after a few years.

I would love to be able to convert all of my paper books to digital versions if only to not need all the storage space. Generally the main books I would like to see/keep in paper form are books like cook books or how to books that are referred to alot and used in an environment you wouldn't want to subject an electronic device too.

This is actually similar to the Wii virtual console. For those that don't know, the virtual console allows you to buy older games that came out for previous Nintendo consoles online and store them into your Wii's internal memory. However, I still have all those old console games and can't bear to pay for them any more. But, if nintendo offered me some type of "conversion" price like $1 or something I would pay it. I would do the same for eBooks... if there were some type of depot where you could bring your paper books to prove you owned it and turn it in for a digital version of the same book, that would be awesome. Even if I had to pay some nominal fee to do this I would.

BOb

[CCDMan]

On this forum, so far, about 50% of the participants in the poll I set up do re-read books.

I do as well, but what percent of those we own are ever re-read? Not a large percent, I suspect (are there any numbers on this?). The idea that one somehow should keep all the books one reads is just silly. All of us have read books that we wish we had not bothered with, much less keeping to read again.

How do you know what book you want to use 10 years later?

I may not know which ones I want to read again but you have to be an idiot not to know which ones you DON'T want to read again. Those are the ones that wind up in a landfill or passed on to somebody with different tastes. Of course, if one thought the book stunk, why would you pass it on to a friend?! <g>

Also there are different type of readers and different kind of uses of a book.

Some books (the stinkers mentioned above) are good for leveling tables, I guess. <g> Like everything else, some books just not very good (or the economic version of that - not very popular), and although a few people might find them worthwhile, that may not be enough to waste natural resources on or for a publisher to take a chance on.

Consider books that do not sell even close to the numbers printed. How many of those wind up in the recycle bin back at the publishers? Far better for these books to be in ebook form. Not only will more of these small audience books actually make it to market (less risky to publish), but few resources are wasted if they flop.

The argument that just because you cannot see a reason to do something does not mean that this something is worthless or not important.

Exactly where did I say that? Reading is fine but not quoting what you read between the lines.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

I may not know which ones I want to read again but you have to be an idiot not to know which ones you DON'T want to read again. Those are the ones that wind up in a landfill or passed on to somebody with different tastes. Of course, if one thought the book stunk, why would you pass it on to a friend?!

I do not usually read this kind of books. But even this kind of books you might need look into efter you have read them because you are writing a review of the book or you are discussing the book and want to look up something.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

I do as well, but what percent of those we own are ever re-read? Not a large percent, I suspect (are there any numbers on this?).

The poll distinguishes between re-reading many books vs. re-reading only a few. Both options got high percentages. A significant, but lesser, number of people refer back to books to re-read only a portion.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I generally keep all the books I buy... but "mainly" because I can't see throwing away something I just paid $8-$15 for.

Going by that argument, presumably you keep all your old pizza boxes too?

[lubberts]

As my dad would say, just hold on one cotton picking minute!!
Perhaps I missed it in all of my readings on the Kindle, but when did we decide that ebooks could not be kept? Is the DRM going to erase them from the memory on your ebook reader after you finish with the final page? From what I understood, the books are stored not only to your hard drive (or home book shelf) where they could perish in a fire or flood, but also on their servers, where you can re-download AND re-read them whenever you might choose to do so. The only restriction is that you do so on your kindle (or any of the other FIVE kindle's registered to your account). If I own one, why is that a restriction at all? Granted, I don't use the computer that I had 5 years ago on a daily basis, but I still own my old colored plastic mac laptop that I had in high school, and If there were some game or program or book that I loved, but also did not care enough to re-purchase to work on OSX, AND apple hadn't created backwards compatibility for, I could revisit that ancient piece of hardware and use it.
If it is about sharing then take my example and consider; There is a small group of book loving friends I like to share books with. For me it is my uncle, my father, my girlfriend, and occasionally my Aunt, though she lives far away. It's like my fave5 (or would that be fave 6?), but for reading. :-) I have a kindle on the way, so does my dad, so does my girlfriend, when I told my uncle about it he sounded very interested. My aunt in New York was previously too far away to justify sharing reading materials (shipping is expensive if you want it there this millenium) but now, if she got one as well we would ALL be able to share our books. Not only share our books, but have copies of all of those books constantly at hand, and have the ability to all, simultaneously read the same best seller or new release for the low low price of TEN BUCKS!! Between us we would usually purchase at least two copies of a grand slam book to spread amongst us (with plenty of thumb twiddling awaiting the slow readers). These two copies are purchased at the borders 30% off price, we'll say $20 to be generous. We aren't just saving half, we're saving 3/4ths of the price we normally would have paid, and we don't have to fret about remembering to bring a book back to someone, or to bring it to share to begin with wasting gas and time. Or (not like I have ever done this) about losing it and having to fake knowing what the latest inside joke is. (haven't lost a reader yet...i'm thinking it's because I barely make that much in a week...)
And don't get me started about moving books. I HATE moving books. I've had 4 apartments in the last 4 years, and perhaps I'll keep more books around once I settle, but packing and hauling and unpacking for something I MAY peruse once in a year? Last time I had to move, I moved them all right to half price bookstore.
From the comments above this is turning into "either keep the books you might like to read again OR get a Kindle"
HUH?

[lubberts]

haha, pizza boxes! That's rich!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by lubberts

haha, pizza boxes! That's rich!

There was, in fact, a serious point behind the fatuous remark.

I probably spend roughly equal amounts of money each month on eBooks and take-away pizzas. I buy rather more eBooks than pizzas, but eBooks are cheaper than pizzas, so it works out about the same.

The point is, when you buy a pizza you get perhaps half an hour's enjoyment from it, and then it's gone for ever. If you want to repeat the experience, you have to buy another.

An eBook, which is cheaper than a pizza, gives far more enjoyment. It'll probably take me around 6h to read an average novel, so that's 12x the pleasure that the pizza's given me at a lower price.

Given that the eBook is already so massively ahead in the enjoyment stakes, why are people bothered about whether or not they'll be able to re-read that book in 5 years time? That's what I just don't get. People don't complain that they can't eat their pizza again, so why all the fuss about the eBook? Why not just consider it a one-time pleasure, like the pizza?