PDOC to EBOK without converting?

lowfive · 02-24-2012, 11:14 AM

I think most people are aware that some sideloaded mobi books show up under 'documents' instead of 'books' on the Kindle Fire. This problem is resolved by changing the PDOC tag to EBOK. The most common way suggested to do this is to change the mobi output settings in Calibre: you'll see the default is to tag [PDOC] which must be changed to [EBOK].

Here's my problem: it seems that the tag is part of the metadata. Even if it's something a bit more than that I can't believe it should require re-conversion if it's already in mobi format. Re-converting means substantial extra time used and the chance of changing the ebook's format for the worse.

So here's the question: Is there any way to change the PDOC tag to EBOK without re-converting?

wallcraft · 02-24-2012, 08:50 PM

There is a lot of confusion about PDOC. Part of the problem is that the usual way we find out that the PDOC is there is that the MOBI turns up in the Docs app (vs the Books app) on the Fire.

I may be adding to the confusion, but what I now think is true is the following:

a) There is a metadata field in MOBIs called cdetype (number 501). If this is set to EBOK the ebook will show up in Books, otherwise (no cdetype or set to PDOC) it will be in Docs.

b) Calibre does not add cdetype to its own MOBIs (e.g. created by converting from ePub). It adds cdetype when writing a copy of the MOBI via "save to disk" or "send to device".

c) In Preferences -> Output options -> MOBI output. There is a "Personal doc tag" option. This is typically set to [PDOC], but it can have any value you want. The way this works is that if this tag is associated with your ebook in Calibre and you are writing a copy then cdetype is set to PDOC and otherwise it is set to EBOK.

Note that, based on my tests, if the "Personal doc tag" option is set to [EBOK], the cdetype is still set to PDOC if you have added [EBOK] as a tag to the ebook in Calibre. So changing it from [PDOC] to [EBOK] would only have an effect if you have [PDOC] as a tag to your ebook.

One thing I am not sure about is how Calibre knows that the MOBI is Kindle-bound. Some of the reported issues on the Fire makes me wonder if there are additional undocumented requirements. Note that in most cases we don't know that Calibre-generated ebooks contain PDOC - we just know they don't contain EBOK. Also, I'm not sure what happens if the existing MOBI in your Calibre library already contains cdetype set to PDOC.

Anyway, based on the above you should not need to reconvert your MOBIs (except perhaps if they already have a cdetype of PDOC).

If you are familiar with the command line, MobiPerl's mobi2mobi command will printout all the metadata in a MOBI. There is a precompiled version for Windows, so you don't need to install Pearl to use it. Using this command on the same ebook in Calibre's internal folders and on the Fire might be informative.

EDIT: The Java Mobi Metadata Editor can be used to check (and edit) cdetype, and make be easier to use than mobi2mobi.

lowfive · 02-24-2012, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the extensive info! It sounds like the best bet for this particular problem is either mobi2mobi or this java tool found here
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=165729

I have a feeling the latter will prove to be the quickest and easiest way to add the EBOK tag.

cdetype seeker · 02-27-2012, 11:47 AM

I'm doing books for the Kindle Fire in kf8, and changing the Personal Doc tag with calibre does make them show up in "Books", but it also seems to eliminate the kf8 formatting.

And since I'm creating the .opf file anyway, the question is: Can cdetype be set in the .opf file? And, if so, what (exactly) would it look like?

Sorry if the answer to this question is totally obvious, but I'm fairly new to this, and I'd like to avoid downloading and running another program if cdetype can be set with a simple line of text.

DiapDealer · 02-27-2012, 11:53 AM

No, it can't be done in the OPF file. It's part of the EXTH header in the binary MOBI file itself. If you want to do it with calibre, conversion is the only option (EDIT: or I should say saving/sending as well). There's a Java metadata editor in the Kindle subforum that appears to be able to modify this without conversion, as well as the mobiperl tools, but I'm not exactly sure how much (if any) testing of KF8 files has been done.

cdetype seeker · 02-27-2012, 12:57 PM

Thanks, though, obviously, that's not the answer I was hoping for. But, given that, can either of the 2 programs (mobi2mobi or the java tool) be used to change ONLY the cdetype, and absolutely nothing else?

Or, put another way, can any of these program be set to do absolutely no conversion whatsoever (other than changing some metadata)?

I'll probably just go ahead and try them, but I'd like to know if there's even a chance. My guess is that if they touch the html at all, the kf8 stuff will be lost (most especially the CSS stuff like position:absolute; -- do these conversion programs normally deal with position:absolute?)

DiapDealer · 02-27-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

But, given that, can either of the 2 programs (mobi2mobi or the java tool) be used to change ONLY the cdetype, and absolutely nothing else?

Or, put another way, can any of these program be set to do absolutely no conversion whatsoever (other than changing some metadata)?

Yes and yes. Neither programs touch the text/structure of the ebook itself as far as I know.

royr719 · 10-08-2014, 02:18 AM

I added [EBOK] using the java mobi metadata editor but still, my books doesn't show under book section of my kindle

theducks · 10-08-2014, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royr719

I added [EBOK] using the java mobi metadata editor but still, my books doesn't show under book section of my kindle

You just posted to a thread that is over 2 YEARS old

Xanthe · 12-01-2014, 01:00 AM

If they are like me, then they are new to the Kindle world and this thread comes up when doing a Google search for "calibre and pdoc", which is recommended in a thread in the Kindle forums.

It's how I wound up reading this thread today.

Just because a thread is old doesn't mean that it isn't still needed. Sort of like people...

eschwartz · 12-01-2014, 01:31 AM

Then here is some more free information.

After changing the output settings, select all books in your calibre library, and use Edit Metadata.The Bulk Edit Metadata screen will come up -- check the box on the bottom labeled "Remove stored conversion settings for the selected books".
This will remove the stored value for the PDOC tag, for books you have already converted to MOBI/AZW3.
Without this, the cached value is used when you hit Send-to-device, leading to a great deal of headscratching.

You can also install the Quality Check plugin and use the option Fix ==> Fix ASIN for Kindle Fire, which embeds a false ASIN in the book and ensures cdetype=EBOK.

Xanthe · 12-01-2014, 05:41 AM

Thanks for that info!

deeplyblue · 05-09-2017, 08:38 PM

Just to repeat, three years on, that old threads can still be good threads. I've been puzzling over problems of getting mobi files moved over to an (old) Kindle Fire and found the information in eschwartz's post matched the functioning of the Quality Check plugin, which I had got installed but never used.

So, thanks a lot for info which may be old, but is clearly still applicable to the equally old hardware/software that I'm using.

02-24-2012, 11:14 AM	#1
lowfive Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 2952 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: Kindle Fire	PDOC to EBOK without converting? I think most people are aware that some sideloaded mobi books show up under 'documents' instead of 'books' on the Kindle Fire. This problem is resolved by changing the PDOC tag to EBOK. The most common way suggested to do this is to change the mobi output settings in Calibre: you'll see the default is to tag [PDOC] which must be changed to [EBOK]. Here's my problem: it seems that the tag is part of the metadata. Even if it's something a bit more than that I can't believe it should require re-conversion if it's already in mobi format. Re-converting means substantial extra time used and the chance of changing the ebook's format for the worse. So here's the question: Is there any way to change the PDOC tag to EBOK without re-converting?

02-24-2012, 08:50 PM	#2
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	There is a lot of confusion about PDOC. Part of the problem is that the usual way we find out that the PDOC is there is that the MOBI turns up in the Docs app (vs the Books app) on the Fire. I may be adding to the confusion, but what I now think is true is the following: a) There is a metadata field in MOBIs called cdetype (number 501). If this is set to EBOK the ebook will show up in Books, otherwise (no cdetype or set to PDOC) it will be in Docs. b) Calibre does not add cdetype to its own MOBIs (e.g. created by converting from ePub). It adds cdetype when writing a copy of the MOBI via "save to disk" or "send to device". c) In Preferences -> Output options -> MOBI output. There is a "Personal doc tag" option. This is typically set to [PDOC], but it can have any value you want. The way this works is that if this tag is associated with your ebook in Calibre and you are writing a copy then cdetype is set to PDOC and otherwise it is set to EBOK. Note that, based on my tests, if the "Personal doc tag" option is set to [EBOK], the cdetype is still set to PDOC if you have added [EBOK] as a tag to the ebook in Calibre. So changing it from [PDOC] to [EBOK] would only have an effect if you have [PDOC] as a tag to your ebook. One thing I am not sure about is how Calibre knows that the MOBI is Kindle-bound. Some of the reported issues on the Fire makes me wonder if there are additional undocumented requirements. Note that in most cases we don't know that Calibre-generated ebooks contain PDOC - we just know they don't contain EBOK. Also, I'm not sure what happens if the existing MOBI in your Calibre library already contains cdetype set to PDOC. Anyway, based on the above you should not need to reconvert your MOBIs (except perhaps if they already have a cdetype of PDOC). If you are familiar with the command line, MobiPerl's mobi2mobi command will printout all the metadata in a MOBI. There is a precompiled version for Windows, so you don't need to install Pearl to use it. Using this command on the same ebook in Calibre's internal folders and on the Fire might be informative. EDIT: The Java Mobi Metadata Editor can be used to check (and edit) cdetype, and make be easier to use than mobi2mobi. Last edited by wallcraft; 02-24-2012 at 09:13 PM.

02-27-2012, 11:53 AM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,546 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	No, it can't be done in the OPF file. It's part of the EXTH header in the binary MOBI file itself. If you want to do it with calibre, conversion is the only option (EDIT: or I should say saving/sending as well). There's a Java metadata editor in the Kindle subforum that appears to be able to modify this without conversion, as well as the mobiperl tools, but I'm not exactly sure how much (if any) testing of KF8 files has been done. Last edited by DiapDealer; 02-27-2012 at 12:09 PM.

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02-24-2012, 09:23 PM	#3
lowfive Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 2952 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: Kindle Fire	Thanks for the extensive info! It sounds like the best bet for this particular problem is either mobi2mobi or this java tool found here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=165729 I have a feeling the latter will prove to be the quickest and easiest way to add the EBOK tag.

02-27-2012, 11:47 AM	#4
cdetype seeker Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: Kindle Fire, K3 keyboard	I'm doing books for the Kindle Fire in kf8, and changing the Personal Doc tag with calibre does make them show up in "Books", but it also seems to eliminate the kf8 formatting. And since I'm creating the .opf file anyway, the question is: Can cdetype be set in the .opf file? And, if so, what (exactly) would it look like? Sorry if the answer to this question is totally obvious, but I'm fairly new to this, and I'd like to avoid downloading and running another program if cdetype can be set with a simple line of text.

02-27-2012, 12:57 PM	#6
cdetype seeker Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2012 Device: Kindle Fire, K3 keyboard	Thanks, though, obviously, that's not the answer I was hoping for. But, given that, can either of the 2 programs (mobi2mobi or the java tool) be used to change ONLY the cdetype, and absolutely nothing else? Or, put another way, can any of these program be set to do absolutely no conversion whatsoever (other than changing some metadata)? I'll probably just go ahead and try them, but I'd like to know if there's even a chance. My guess is that if they touch the html at all, the kf8 stuff will be lost (most especially the CSS stuff like position:absolute; -- do these conversion programs normally deal with position:absolute?)

10-08-2014, 02:18 AM	#8
royr719 Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2014 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I added [EBOK] using the java mobi metadata editor but still, my books doesn't show under book section of my kindle

12-01-2014, 01:00 AM	#10
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	If they are like me, then they are new to the Kindle world and this thread comes up when doing a Google search for "calibre and pdoc", which is recommended in a thread in the Kindle forums. It's how I wound up reading this thread today. Just because a thread is old doesn't mean that it isn't still needed. Sort of like people...

12-01-2014, 01:31 AM	#11
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Then here is some more free information. After changing the output settings, select all books in your calibre library, and use Edit Metadata.The Bulk Edit Metadata screen will come up -- check the box on the bottom labeled "Remove stored conversion settings for the selected books". This will remove the stored value for the PDOC tag, for books you have already converted to MOBI/AZW3. Without this, the cached value is used when you hit Send-to-device, leading to a great deal of headscratching. You can also install the Quality Check plugin and use the option Fix ==> Fix ASIN for Kindle Fire, which embeds a false ASIN in the book and ensures cdetype=EBOK.

12-01-2014, 05:41 AM	#12
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	Thanks for that info!

05-09-2017, 08:38 PM	#13
deeplyblue Member Posts: 19 Karma: 20704 Join Date: May 2013 Device: Kindle, Nexus 10	Just to repeat, three years on, that old threads can still be good threads. I've been puzzling over problems of getting mobi files moved over to an (old) Kindle Fire and found the information in eschwartz's post matched the functioning of the Quality Check plugin, which I had got installed but never used. So, thanks a lot for info which may be old, but is clearly still applicable to the equally old hardware/software that I'm using.

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