Big problem - Page 2

Fledchen · 03-21-2009, 09:01 AM

I find that I get the best results using an OCR program (ABBYY Finereader), but it is definitely not a cheap option.

Elfwreck · 03-21-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

Thanks.

Unfortunately I don't get a simple HTML view. I get a view of the document in a Google view application, and none of the Save As options save the book as HTML that is readable.

Perhaps highlight all the text, and copy & paste into Word or something similar? Save as RTF, and add Heading styles for chapter devisions, make a TOC, and so on.

It's more steps between that and a good ebook, but it's still better than starting with the PDF. (It does make footnotes a pain to deal with.)

BlackVoid · 03-22-2009, 06:03 AM

USE BOOKDESIGNER instead of Calibre. Calibre is a horrible tool to convert PDFs. BookDesigner makes decent conversions.

Forget Calibre, it is way overhyped. I had so many problems with it, that I uninstalled it a long ago and I am not looking back. Judging from your problem, it has not improved ever since. The developer keeps adding features while basic functions do not work properly.

BlackVoid · 03-22-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

There's really nothing you can do about it. PDF is not a "book" format - the file does not contain paragraphs, lines, or even words, but just instructions of the form "draw a letter 'A' at coordinates (x,y) on the page". It is virtually impossible to get a good "conversion" of a PDF to any other format; they will generally require extensive editing after conversion.

This is just not true, just like your brain, a good piece of software (which Calibre is not) can identify lines, line breaks and paragraphs. It is quite possible to do a good conversion.

BlackVoid · 03-22-2009, 06:13 AM

On the first read, I missed that you have a Mac, sorry.

You need to find a software that converts to some interim ebook format: LIT, epub, mobi, etv. Then convert it to LRF.

roger64 · 03-22-2009, 07:26 AM

I get used to proceed this way with pdf in single column.

I use Acrobat to save them as rtf. If need be, I export the images.

I open a 9x12 cm template in OpenOffice and I insert the rtf. I get this way a second rtf with 9x12 cm format. I then finally export this file as a new pdf. I finally arrange the meta-data with pdf info. The result is usually pretty clean and stable. Need some work though.

Patricia · 03-22-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

USE BOOKDESIGNER instead of Calibre. Calibre is a horrible tool to convert PDFs. BookDesigner makes decent conversions.

I have had variable results with Book Designer and PDFs. Sometimes it will make a very good conversion; other times it will either be hopeless, or will fail to convert at all. I suspect that you may have been lucky in your choice of PDF document.

I believe that this variability is because some PDF's originated as documents that were subsequently converted to PDF. Either Book Designer or Calibre will handle them quite well.
But neither will work well with scanned paper books, for the reasons that HarryT gives.
Moreover, I think that you are being rather unfair to the developer of Calibre. If you want OCR then you need to get an OCR program. ABBYY Finereader or Omnipage will do the job, but don't come cheap.

BlackVoid · 03-23-2009, 04:46 AM

I was not talking about OCR and I do not expect a conversion program to do OCR. I have lots of books in PDF format and about 99% of them convert just fine with BookDesigner. With Calibre conversion, paragraph information is lost, empty pages and broken lines appear. This is BAD.

I do not think it is unfair to expect a conversion program to convert properly, especially when a much older program can do it without any fuss.

netseeker · 03-23-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

This is just not true, just like your brain, a good piece of software (which Calibre is not) can identify lines, line breaks and paragraphs. It is quite possible to do a good conversion.

You know that linebreaks and paragraphs are unknown (unused) conceptions in pdf?
Calibre is a fine piece of software. It's not only a conversion software, it's an ebook-management application. The PDF-import could be better (for text-based pdfs) but it's not fair to say that Calibre is a bad software in general.

BlackVoid · 03-24-2009, 05:37 AM

"You know that linebreaks and paragraphs are unknown (unused) conceptions in pdf? "

Your eyeballs can identify those line breaks and paragraphs. Are they there or not? If you see them, a program can also "see" them.

Ebook management - I do not need an application for that, much easier to manage the ebooks in folders with any file manager. And for conversion of PDF Calibre is pretty much useless.

pepak · 03-24-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

"You know that linebreaks and paragraphs are unknown (unused) conceptions in pdf? "

Your eyeballs can identify those line breaks and paragraphs. Are they there or not? If you see them, a program can also "see" them.

How interesting. You do realize that there are great many things that humans can do that computers can't - yet, anyway. Such as recognizing known shapes and their meaning.

Maybe you should accept it as a fact that while there may be PDF files that are easy to convert to text, this is by no means necessary and it is just as possible that the PDF file will be a mess of lines and curves that just happen to spell letters, words, sentences and paragraphs. And, unfortunately, in my experience PDFs tend more towards the latter than the former.

netseeker · 03-24-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

Your eyeballs can identify those line breaks and paragraphs. Are they there or not? If you see them, a program can also "see" them.

Well, even Adobes Acrobat has it's errors when converting pdf to html or txt. It's not that easy to identify (and convert) those line breaks and "paragraphs" automatically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

Ebook management - I do not need an application for that, much easier to manage the ebooks in folders with any file manager. And for conversion of PDF Calibre is pretty much useless.

Fine, then please use another application and stop blaming calibre. You said it more than once how useless Calibre is for you - don't you think that's enough?

BlackVoid · 03-24-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepak

... and it is just as possible that the PDF file will be a mess of lines and curves that just happen to spell letters, words, sentences and paragraphs. And, unfortunately, in my experience PDFs tend more towards the latter than the former.

With Calibre, it is little wonder. I yet to see any kind of mess created by BookDesigner. After converting about 100 PDFs, 1 crashed BD. But not one came out unusable.

BlackVoid · 03-24-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netseeker

Fine, then please use another application and stop blaming calibre. You said it more than once how useless Calibre is for you - don't you think that's enough?

It is common opinion around here is that if Calibre cannot convert it properly, then it is not possible. There are an awful lot of complaints about Calibre's conversion of PDF documents, it is not just me. But it seems fanboys just do not care.

The proof is out there, BookDesigner converts 99% of pure text PDF documents just fine. No empty pages. Not all paragraphs are lost. No line breaks in the middle of the sentence.

TadW · 03-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVoid

Forget Calibre, it is way overhyped. I had so many problems with it, that I uninstalled it a long ago and I am not looking back.

This is your problem. You haven't looked back but you think you know what's best.

Why don't you do something better than Calibre if you think it's so bad?

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03-21-2009, 09:01 AM	#16
Fledchen Guru Posts: 663 Karma: 84658 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Minnesota, USA Device: PB360+, Sony950, VR Stream, iPod Touch, iPad	I find that I get the best results using an OCR program (ABBYY Finereader), but it is definitely not a cheap option.

03-22-2009, 06:03 AM	#18
BlackVoid Evangelist Posts: 415 Karma: 510423 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505	USE BOOKDESIGNER instead of Calibre. Calibre is a horrible tool to convert PDFs. BookDesigner makes decent conversions. Forget Calibre, it is way overhyped. I had so many problems with it, that I uninstalled it a long ago and I am not looking back. Judging from your problem, it has not improved ever since. The developer keeps adding features while basic functions do not work properly.

03-22-2009, 06:13 AM	#20
BlackVoid Evangelist Posts: 415 Karma: 510423 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505	On the first read, I missed that you have a Mac, sorry. You need to find a software that converts to some interim ebook format: LIT, epub, mobi, etv. Then convert it to LRF.

03-22-2009, 07:26 AM	#21
roger64 Wizard Posts: 2,608 Karma: 3000161 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: Kindle PW3 (wifi)	I get used to proceed this way with pdf in single column. I use Acrobat to save them as rtf. If need be, I export the images. I open a 9x12 cm template in OpenOffice and I insert the rtf. I get this way a second rtf with 9x12 cm format. I then finally export this file as a new pdf. I finally arrange the meta-data with pdf info. The result is usually pretty clean and stable. Need some work though.

03-23-2009, 04:46 AM	#23
BlackVoid Evangelist Posts: 415 Karma: 510423 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505	I was not talking about OCR and I do not expect a conversion program to do OCR. I have lots of books in PDF format and about 99% of them convert just fine with BookDesigner. With Calibre conversion, paragraph information is lost, empty pages and broken lines appear. This is BAD. I do not think it is unfair to expect a conversion program to convert properly, especially when a much older program can do it without any fuss.

03-24-2009, 05:37 AM	#25
BlackVoid Evangelist Posts: 415 Karma: 510423 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505	"You know that linebreaks and paragraphs are unknown (unused) conceptions in pdf? " Your eyeballs can identify those line breaks and paragraphs. Are they there or not? If you see them, a program can also "see" them. Ebook management - I do not need an application for that, much easier to manage the ebooks in folders with any file manager. And for conversion of PDF Calibre is pretty much useless.

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