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Old 07-24-2010, 11:28 AM   #16
HarryT
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Oh I see what you mean, yes. But if you simply specify the format - ePub, or whatever - then the student will be free to buy whatever device can read that format, whether it be a laptop running Windows, a Mac, an Android tablet, an iPad, or whatever else they fancy. That's what I meant earlier when I said that both Android and the iPad were "open" in respect of being able to install applications on them.
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #17
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Yes and it is developments like those Andy mentioned, about forcing students to by ebooks, that makes me feel that the move to digital has some of the character of a scam. It is an end run around the used market. And publishers would love to do away with used text books so that they could more thoroughly exploit the captive student market. The royalty squad would love to do away with used bookstores. I like ebooks, don't get me wrong, but I have the feeling that there is more going on than a simple move to a more efficient distribution system.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:05 PM   #18
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Oh I see what you mean, yes. But if you simply specify the format - ePub, or whatever - then the student will be free to buy whatever device can read that format, whether it be a laptop running Windows, a Mac, an Android tablet, an iPad, or whatever else they fancy. That's what I meant earlier when I said that both Android and the iPad were "open" in respect of being able to install applications on them.
.... Really? What happens if he says buy it from the iBooksore.


With regards to the red "Whatever" highlight. I suppose if he said you must buy MOBI formats. At that point the users will have more choice than Apples iBook format

Of course if he says you have to have an android device, then he can tell his students to get the book anywhere.

..... Except for two problems. A good amount of the Text books will be in PDF (probably using ADOBE). And the only way to get supported access to the Apps he is refering to requires that Android devices have Access to the Google Market. Not all tablets have access to the Google market.

Also I'm seeing his point. While eBook reading technology isn't new, neither is the Android or iPad if you look at their guts. What is new is the prolivication of cheap Android devices, and it will only get more accessible. And the support for applications that read a specific DRM. Before these apps did exist but few people read on them.

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:27 PM   #19
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Of course if he says you have to have an android device, then he can tell his students to get the book anywhere.
This is backwards thinking.
If the point is to have open standards for ebooks, why on earth would you want to force a particular hardware platform? What is gained by saying 'you have to buy an Android device' rather than saying 'you have to buy a device capable of reading format X with DRM scheme Y'?

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Also I'm seeing his point. While eBook reading technology isn't new, neither is the Android or iPad if you look at their guts. What is new is the prolivication of cheap Android devices, and it will only get more accessible. And the support for applications that read a specific DRM. Before these apps did exist but few people read on them.
I feel like I'm in a parallel universe
So what's new isn't the iPad, and the reading apps available for it?
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:44 PM   #20
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This train of thought (if I can be said to have thought) started when I went to http://www.SmartQMid.com for updates for my SmartDevices V7. I noticed that Andorid had been updated, and that I could read Amazon's ebooks, Border's ebooks, and B&N's ebooks.

Since my last post, I've looked over the major online book sellers. I see that PC, Mac, iPad, BlackBerry, and Android are all fairly standard. I totally missed this in the last few months. NOW IF ONLY THE BIG TEXTBOOK PUBLISHERS WOULD GO THAT WAY!

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Oh I see what you mean, yes. But if you simply specify the format - ePub, or whatever - then the student will be free to buy whatever device can read that format, whether it be a laptop running Windows, a Mac, an Android tablet, an iPad, or whatever else they fancy. That's what I meant earlier when I said that both Android and the iPad were "open" in respect of being able to install applications on them.
Yes, you are right, but we are not there yet. I do see that we may get a group of standard executable platforms BEFORE we get a standard file format.

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Yes and it is developments like those Andy mentioned, about forcing students to by ebooks, that makes me feel that the move to digital has some of the character of a scam. It is an end run around the used market. And publishers would love to do away with used text books so that they could more thoroughly exploit the captive student market. The royalty squad would love to do away with used bookstores. I like ebooks, don't get me wrong, but I have the feeling that there is more going on than a simple move to a more efficient distribution system.
That is because the words "scam" and "college text book" are synonyms.:rofl

We will keep paper books, and the students can pick which they wish to use. My biggest complaints are: (1) students can not keep DRMed books long-term, (2) students are tracked as they read DRMed books, and (3) we often require them to buy software (e.g., SAM 2010 from Course Technology) and they can agree to the license agreement (which goes beyond "do not pirate") or they can not turn in the work and will fail the class. Ick!

Andy
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:55 PM   #21
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Since my last post, I've looked over the major online book sellers. I see that PC, Mac, iPad, BlackBerry, and Android are all fairly standard. I totally missed this in the last few months. NOW IF ONLY THE BIG TEXTBOOK PUBLISHERS WOULD GO THAT WAY!
[...]
Yes, you are right, but we are not there yet. I do see that we may get a group of standard executable platforms BEFORE we get a standard file format.
I think once reasonably large screens are commonplace for readers that PDF will become a more viable format for textbooks. I've downloaded a couple of O'Reilly eBooks, they supply them in ePub or PDF, and the PDF provides a superior layout.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:58 PM   #22
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I'm not technical, but best I can understand it is, content should be like water -- bring whatever container you want and we'll fill it with content for you. Practically, I can see that happening, with DRM.

I don't want to get into debate about the evils of DRM. I just see content producers being willing to offer content in unmolded form, which would allow widest distribution (best profit potential), but with DRM, which they see protecting their product. (Maybe it protects nothing, but I don't see them giving it up.)

So what would be the most accessible method of delivering unmolded content? Pure text that can go into nearly every container, yet allow DRM to be slapped on?
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:17 PM   #23
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Yes, you are right, but we are not there yet. I do see that we may get a group of standard executable platforms BEFORE we get a standard file format.
I'm not sure sure of that...

School recently started for my children. My son came home excited and said they have a new program where kids can enroll through their online library and access their text books through the web.



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I think once reasonably large screens are commonplace for readers that PDF will become a more viable format for textbooks. I've downloaded a couple of O'Reilly eBooks, they supply them in ePub or PDF, and the PDF provides a superior layout.
Yes I agree that has been my belief for some time now.

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Old 07-24-2010, 09:37 PM   #24
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Forcing? Sorry, who is being "forced" to buy something?
[Off topic]US citizens are being (will be) forced to buy health insurance.[/Off topic]
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:27 PM   #25
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oops wrong topic

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Old 07-26-2010, 05:31 AM   #26
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Can you load you own ePub into the borders or B&N apps
?
I can't use my Adobe PDF reader to read DJVU files either.
Of course, they are two differants format. If the b&n app can read drm ePub , it should be able to read drm-free ePub.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:32 AM   #27
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Of course, they are two differants format. If the b&n app can read drm ePub , it should be able to read drm-free ePub.
Only if it has a mechanism for loading them. The B&N app for the iPad, for example, won't let you load your own content - you can only read books from your B&N bookshelf.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:30 PM   #28
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Of course, they are two differants format. If the b&n app can read drm ePub , it should be able to read drm-free ePub.
You are assuming something about software.

Software can be created to do anything the programmer makes it do. There is no gurantee that a word processor will support upper case letters, if a programmer does not want it to. Being a (competent) programmer is a lot like playing God: you can do anything you want. There are not many rules.

The thing that drives me crazy is when someone says "If I need a seperate program to ... something ... THEN IT'S USELESS!!! (You did not say this, but that others have said it.) If someone refuses to adopt ebooks because their one hardware reader needs different programs to read different books. I agree that it's annoying, but I disagree that it makes the reader "USELESS!!!"

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Old 07-28-2010, 03:28 PM   #29
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